- Inkscape Devel - Inkscape Mailman

DTD
by Wendall Cada 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

Hello, Accidentally sent a post earlier, the admin can disregard. Anyway, I posted a SR on sf.net some months ago that can be found here: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=742081&group_id=4054&atid=… Anyway, I came away with the impression that lauris didn't much care about the spirit of the W3C documentation and interpreted it to the letter whenever convenient. I didn't bother to argue the fact that the DTD does need to exist, and as mhnoyes points out, the DTD provided by W3C could just as easily be used. Date: 2003-11-29 11:29 Sender: lauris Logged In: YES user_id=19294 No, DTD does not exist, because nobody wants to maintain it (and unmaintained DTD is much useless). Also, W3C guidelines only say, that xmlns indicator has to be valid URL, not really existing document. Also, there is 'plain-svg' saving option and --export-svg command line option, that should create pure W3C variant. So I move this to feature request category from bugs. Anyway, I disagree that this is a Feature Request. This is a problem, not a feature I'm looking for. I realize that valid files are created, but the DTD's are part of the process. I and am wondering how this with be addressed with InkScape? Wendall -- "Only the ideas that we really live have any value." --Hermann Hesse (Demian)

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tutorials + renaming menu items
by Jonathan Phillips 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

Hello, 1.) After we get a couple more tutorials, how hard would it be to make a big Tutorial menu item with the sub-menu arrow to like our normal tutorials, a tutorial on how to create an icon, and lets say a tutorial a tips and tricks tutorial? If we can do this, I'd be interesting in plowing on these. We have a nice template already of what to do (thx to bulia), and we might as well make use of them. I will start these tutorials if someone (bulia?) makes that hierarchical Tutorial menu item with just the standard tutorial in it for now. 2.) NJH mentioned that we should rename the Import... menu item to "Place..." I thoroughly agree as place just places an absolute reference to a PNG file. A true import implies that a file is converted and put into the current document that a user is working on, right? If we agree to this, I'll change it. Jon -- Jonathan Phillips <jon@...15...>

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] more font work
by Robert Crosbie 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

>From: Bryce Harrington <bryce@...1...> >To: inkscape <inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net> >Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] more font work >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:16:28 -0800 (PST) > >On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Jonathan Phillips wrote: > > Two things: > > > > 1.) What is the speed differences between using SVGs compared to XPMs > > for icons in the interface? > >I don't think anyone's quantified it, but I traced through the code that >gets called to render them, and it's quite extensive. My guess is that >it's quite a bit slower, but couldn't say how much. I suspect that >could be mitigated via caching the rendered bitmaps at compile or >installation time. > > > 2.) Currently, our interface doesn't use SVGs for icons, right? > >I think it uses a mix of both SVG and XPM. > >Bryce > Yes, it is a mix of both SVG and XPM. I was working on this a while ago when I added the Stock support. I got lost in the SVG icon rendering code and didn't know if we wanted to go exclusively with SVG or XPM, so I left things as a mix. I haven't had time to work on the code since before christmas. :( Some icons in the icons.svg file aren't rendered as xpm yet. If we went exclusively with XPM's we could put everything in stock and get rid of the SPIcon code (I think). It should be faster and the code would be easier to manage and understand. Also, last time I looked, Valgrind was reporting quite a few memory leaks traceable to the SPIcon code. Cheers, Rob. http://members.rogers.com/rcrosbie _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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more font work
by bulia byak 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

Continuing the font system cleanup, today I checked in a fairly large chunk of code: 1. All CSS font properties (style, weight, stretch, variant) are now fully supported. This support is somewhat flakey in that when you change a font of a text object, the properties get their values from parsing the style name of the font, assuming the name uses more or less standard terms (and is in English). This is currently unavoidable, because the Xft back-end provides no information about the font style except italic and bold bits, which is clearly insufficient for our purposes. When we switch to Pango, we'll be able to get from it an exact match for the CSS properties, but it needs to be tested how reliable is this information from Pango (it may well be that parsing the name, although ugly, is still more reliable). Similarly, when Inkscape reads a CSS font specification from SVG, it finds the most appropriate font based on the name only. So, now Inkscape can see, apply, and read from SVG a lot more fonts and styles than before. It still cannot handle _all_ fonts, but the limit of the CSS syntax is reached, and further improvement is only possible if we introduce an inkscape:font-style extension attribute. Perhaps I will do this next. 2. The matching algorithm that finds the most appropriate family and style is much improved. If there's no exact family match, Inkscape now uses partial matches (e.g. "Times New Roman" if SVG specifies "times", or "Adobe Garamond" if the file requires "Garamond", or vice versa), of which it selects the family with the shortest name. Inkscape now knows more standard families (most importantly Bitstream Vera, but also Luxi and Windows standard fonts) and uses one of them when all else fails. It also attempts to avoid using fancy fonts (such as monospace, outline, etc) when not asked, so as to prevent funny font substitutions. Finally, it now understands and tries to obey generic font families (serif, sans-serif, monospace) and can parse multiple families in one specification (e.g. "font-family:garamond,times,serif") finding the best match for all listed families. With matching style, it will match "italic" when you specify "oblique" but no oblique is available, and vice versa, and will find the closes stretch and weight match among the available styles. 3. Whenever an inexact family/style match is chosen, Inkscape will now display a g_warning showing what font was required and what is being used instead. You will probably get a lot of such warnings for your old files, because older versions of inkscape/sodipodi often included bogus and unnecessary font references. Newly created files should be OK (at least when viewed on the same system). In particular, there were warnings in icons.svg, tutorial.svg and about.svg; I cleaned them all up so please do "make install" again. If you get some suspicious font substitution or any other font problem, contact me at once. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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new library dependency: libgc
by MenTaLguY 03 Mar '04

03 Mar '04

We're looking at using libgc (the Boehm garbage collector) -- will this be a problem for any of our non-Unix packages? -mental

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] SVG icon work (was more font work)
by Robert Crosbie 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

>From: Alan Horkan <horkana@...44...> >To: Bob Jamison <rjamison@...73...> >CC: inkscape <inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net> >Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] more font work >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:10:40 +0000 (GMT) > > >On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Bob Jamison wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:28:59 -0600 > > From: Bob Jamison <rjamison@...73...> > > To: inkscape <inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net> > > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] more font work > > > > bulia byak wrote: > > > > > warnings in icons.svg, tutorial.svg and about.svg; I cleaned them all >up > > > so please do "make install" again. > > > > > > > Speaking of icons.svg, I have noticed > > something that maybe one of the users > > could help with, if this is OK with > > Bryce. > > > Currently, icons.svg is rather unorganized. > > It would be really great if someone > > could organize and arrange the icons > > according to their use. And annotated, too. > > Like if the file were arranged like this, > > visually: > > > > > > Toolbox icons, 20x20 > > [icon] [icon] [icon] > > text-tool curve-tool freehand-tool > > > > Menu icons, 24x24 > > [icon] [icon] [icon] > > import-into file_export print-direct > > > > > > ....etc.... > > > > > > The only restrictions are that the > > icons should not be resized, that > > they must remain top-level <g> members > > of the svg tree, and that they retain their > > proper names. > >Would be possible (or even a good idea) to have some way of simply >allowing the group id to be shown directly in the document? > >This would save adding lots of text descriptions as the icons are all >already nicely labelled. > >- Alan H. It is possible that adding extra text and other unused objects could slow down the parsing of the icons. It could be negligable, I don't know, but people do like their applications to start as fast as possible. The file could still be organized into a logical order though and I could take this task. Cheers, Rob. http://members.rogers.com/rcrosbie _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] DTD
by bulia byak 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

>I agree about there being more powerful methods than a DTD. My point is >that I disagree about the URI not needing to correspond to an actual >page. If that is the stance of this development team, I think you should >get some clarity from someone over at W3C, because that has never been >the case in my experience, nor is it how I or any other developer I've >worked with interprets the documents. Quoting http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#ns-decl "The namespace name, to serve its intended purpose, should have the characteristics of uniqueness and persistence. It is not a goal that it be directly usable for retrieval of a schema (if any exists)." This clearly states that a namespace URI is not that of a schema and was never intended to be. If Lauris decided to construct a URI that ends with .dtd, it's not our problem. We keep using it simply for compatibility with Sodipodi. >It would be completely acceptable to leave it out, but putting invalid >DTD information in the files does produce errors. Or do you mean that the SVG DTD linked to in DOCTYPE does not validate our files? If so then yes, it's a problem, we'll probably need to remove that reference (or maybe remove the DOCTYPE altogether). _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjo…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] tutorials + renaming menu items
by bulia byak 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

> > 2.) NJH mentioned that we should rename the Import... menu item to > > "Place..." I thoroughly agree as place just places an absolute reference > > to a PNG file. A true import implies that a file is converted and put > > into the current document that a user is working on, right? > >I'm not sure that is a valid assumption. I vote against "Place". It annoys me enough in Illustrator. Importing is a logical inverse of exporting, so the name must reflect that. Whether a file is sucked in or just linked to is secondary. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] DTD
by Bryce Harrington 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

Thanks, we'd appreciate the help. I think once a DTD (or XML Schema) is available, I assume all we'd need to do is post it to the appropriate place on our website to take care of that validation issue, right? Bryce On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Wendall Cada wrote: > Should have waited to respond, this answered my question entirely. I > would love to check into this for you guys. If I remember correctly, the > SVG files validated against the W3C DTD just fine. I just cut and pasted > the DTD address over the Sodipodi one. > > Wendall > > On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 13:32, Bryce Harrington wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Mar 2004, Wendall Cada wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > Accidentally sent a post earlier, the admin can disregard. > > > > > > Anyway, I posted a SR on sf.net some months ago that can be found here: > > > > > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=742081&group_id=4054&atid=… > > > > > > Anyway, I came away with the impression that lauris didn't much care > > > about the spirit of the W3C documentation and interpreted it to the > > > letter whenever convenient. I didn't bother to argue the fact that the > > > DTD does need to exist, and as mhnoyes points out, the DTD provided by > > > W3C could just as easily be used. > > > > Good idea. For Inkscape we listed 'full SVG compliance' as one of our > > core missions & goals, so the DTD is extremely important. I don't know > > if Inkscape's output passes the W3C DTD, but if it doesn't then those > > items should probably be treated as critical bugs (as bad as crash > > bugs). > > > > We've also talked about having a DTD for the SVG additions. This is > > definitely something that should be written and included with the > > Inkscape package - wouldn't hurt to include the W3C SVG DTD too, for > > completeness. Maybe we should have a share/dtd/ directory? > > > > It might be useful to have an optional extension that did a DTD check of > > documents on load, so people who want to ensure DTD compliance could > > make use of that as a filter/check. > > > > Wendall, would you be interested in checking some of the output against > > the W3C DTD and get a feel for how far off we are from compliance? > > Also, if you know the ins and outs of DTD making, would you be > > interested in helping make the DTD for the added svg items? (I think > > mental could probably itemize what the svg additions in Inkscape are, if > > you catch him on Jabber). > > > > Bryce > > > > > Date: 2003-11-29 11:29 > > > Sender: lauris > > > Logged In: YES > > > user_id=19294 > > > > > > No, DTD does not exist, because nobody wants to maintain > > > it (and unmaintained DTD is much useless). > > > Also, W3C guidelines only say, that xmlns indicator has to > > > be valid URL, not really existing document. > > > Also, there is 'plain-svg' saving option and --export-svg > > > command line option, that should create pure W3C variant. > > > So I move this to feature request category from bugs. > > > > > > Anyway, I disagree that this is a Feature Request. This is a problem, > > > not a feature I'm looking for. I realize that valid files are created, > > > but the DTD's are part of the process. I and am wondering how this with > > > be addressed with InkScape? > > > > > > Wendall > > > >

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DTD
by Wendall Cada 02 Mar '04

02 Mar '04

Hello, Accidentally sent two posts earlier, the admin can disregard. Not enough coffee or something today. Anyway, I posted a SR on sf.net some months ago that can be found here: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=742081&group_id=4054&atid=… Anyway, I came away with the impression that lauris didn't much care about the spirit of the W3C documentation and interpreted it to the letter whenever convenient. I didn't bother to argue the fact that the DTD does need to exist, and as mhnoyes points out, the DTD provided by W3C could just as easily be used. Date: 2003-11-29 11:29 Sender: lauris Logged In: YES user_id=19294 No, DTD does not exist, because nobody wants to maintain it (and unmaintained DTD is much useless). Also, W3C guidelines only say, that xmlns indicator has to be valid URL, not really existing document. Also, there is 'plain-svg' saving option and --export-svg command line option, that should create pure W3C variant. So I move this to feature request category from bugs. Anyway, I disagree that this is a Feature Request. This is a problem, not a feature I'm looking for. I realize that valid files are created, but the DTD's are part of the process. I and am wondering how this with be addressed with InkScape? Wendall -- "Only the ideas that we really live have any value." --Hermann Hesse (Demian)

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