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secondary toolbar
by bulia byak 05 Jan '04

05 Jan '04

I've committed a first try of a secondary toolbar for selector, with X Y W H fields. This obsoletes the "size & position" dialog which can be removed. It's still rough but usable. There are some issues I would like to ask for help with: - I reduced the font size of the labels and spinbuttons, but could not do that for the units menu. It looks like menus font sizes are not settable. Any insights from gtk experts? Because of the too-large units menu, the aux toolbar jumps up and down a bit when you switch tools. - How to change the right-click menu of the spinbutton? If nothing else I'd like to remove its input methods and unicode submenus - they are unnecessary and very confusing for an average user. Perhaps it would make sense to move the units menu into each spinbutton's right-click menu, instead of having it as a separate menu - what do you think? - I want Esc inside the spinbutton to defocus it. Now Enter applies the value and defocuses, but this is only because it's hard-coded into the spinbutton to "activate" it and I added defocusing to the value-changed callback. However I don't see how I can change the keybindings within a spinbutton to enable Esc to do what I want. Is this possible at all? _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Win32 Text Alpha value
by bulia byak 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

>OK. >Deleted preferences.xml >Ran Inkscape. Text is at Alpha1 > >Reinstalled Inkscape and preferences.xml was regenerated with tools >fill-opacity= 0.75. My original thoughts were that this 0.75 had to be >changed to 1. However, clearly this is not so. This means the installer puts its own obsolete copy of preferences.xml, which it must not do. The program will take care of preferences itself; installer must not create it. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] back to work
by bulia byak 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

>I'll go over the list and see if I can trim it down to what seems >likely to be achieved within this timeframe. Getting a release out by >the end of the month sounds like a good target. Lots of progress has >been made over the past few weeks, so a release is quite warranted. >Especially with the great work done on the Windows package. OK, a few organizational points: - Please take time review/expand the 0.37 release notes on wiki. I've been writing them alone and may have missed something. (By the way I've recently rearranged many wiki pages, removing obsolete material into WikiAttic - please don't delete it, it's our history.) - It may be worthwhile to expand the list of places where to make the announcement. Not all such places can be added to inkscape-announce, because that list carries more than just release announcements, and there are places where we only want to announce releases. One obviously missing place is the Sodipodi devel list. Please add other places to the CreatingDists wiki page. - Bryce, I think you've posted the December project status - I don't see it on the site's front page? Its last news is from Dec 22. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjo…

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[Fwd: Translation problems and bad strings]
by Ted Gould 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

FYI This is an e-mail that Tesla wrote about translation issues. Some parts are GNOME specific, but I thought there were some good general things in here that atleast I didn't think about. --Ted -----Forwarded Message----- > From: Telsa Gwynne <hobbit@...144...> > To: gnome-hackers@...45..., gnome-doc-list@...45..., gnome-i18n@...45... > Subject: Translation problems and bad strings > Date: 04 Jan 2004 11:10:44 +0000 > > Really sorry about cross-post: gnome-i18n know most of this > but perhaps not the explanations for a couple of the strings > below; gnome-doc-list need to know what chaos "Control" caused; > and gnome-hackers is my attempt to catch the hackers. > > Not at all sure where replies should go. Use your common sense :) > > Some time ago I asked gnome-i18n for what they thought the worst > strings to translate in Gnome were. And got a pile of answers > which I then didn't summarise on-list. Reading the threads about > "what problems do translators face", I am reminded that I should. > > I know a load of hackers are familiar with this, but for > those who aren't, here's quick description of the translation > process. There are loads of ways of translating: editing po files > by hand, using a web interface, using gtranslator or KBabel; but > they all revolve around a list of strings which go like this: > > #: /module/path/path/filename > msgid "Original string here with occasional <b> or \n marks" > msgstr "" > > ...and the aim of the game is to fill in msgstr. You do not > necessarily have any more context than that, and you have > to guess what some strings mean. (For example, if you don't > have a CD drive, you can't start rhythmbox to see whether > a particular message appears when you stick a CD in..) > > I begin with this one, which started the whole thing. A remark > from one of the Arabic translators on IRC: > > <olimar> joke of the month in a party: "Model column to search > through when searching through code" > > I'm still not sure what this means.. > > There are lots of things programmers can do to help here: > particularly they can put comments by the strings in the code > saying things like "Translators: this is seen by.." or "This > refers to..". For some apps there is such specialised vocabulary > that this can really help. Unfortunately, nearly everyone > decides to translate gtk+ early on (it makes up half of the > strings in developer-libs), and it's full of such strings as above > and there is not really a lot you can do about it without a > gigantic split into "messages for users" and "messages for > developers". Having said that, anyone who finishes gtk is > well set up to finish most of Gnome :) > > So here are the sort of strings translators were dealing > with in the summer. The aisleriot examples have gone, I think > (yay Callum!): but the rest were all around in the summer. > > Historical (ie, gone, to the best of my knowledge): > --------- > * gnome-games/aisleriot: > msgid "borp" > Read it backwards: "prob"... > (Abel Cheung -- who later figured it out, decided > it was cute, and put "melborp" in somewhere else :)) > > * gnome-games/aisleriot, > * nautilus/somewhere I forget: > msgid " of " > This is things like "king of hearts" or "file 1 of > 8". This flatly won't translate in some languages. > Malayam (.ml) needs to see "n of m" for numbers > and change it to say "of m, n". Different words > are used for "of" in Welsh (cy) for "1 of 10" and > "the king of hearts". There's also a further > complication for cy which I don't think I can > explain in a single line, so you are spared. > > > > What do these mean in _English_? > ------------------------------- > #: aisleriot/golf.scm.h:3 > msgid "bdc\n" > msgstr "" > Debugging message referring to "button-double-clicked" > subroutine. > (Abel Cheung) > > #: several places, apparently > msgid "Control" > msgstr "" > "That's just gorgeous - Is is a verb? A noun? What > kind of noun? Where can I find it in the app?" > (Stanislav Visnovsky) > "Control" crops up in strings all over the place. > Months later I discovered that this is the Gnome > Docs Project official word for "widget", because > "widget" is thought not a good word to give to > end-users. This is probably true. But translators > do at least know "widget"; and it doesn't have another > eight possible meanings. And at least some > translators didn't know "control" was in the docs > team's word list of Good Words. > > #: gtk+ > msgid "IM Preedit style" > msgstr "" > from Ole (dk), who noted that you can figure out that IM is > input method from other entries (if you're working from the > po file and not from a web interface), but preedit? > > Some months later, Dave Malcolm explained on IRC, and I think I > shall share for anyone who didn't know: > <DaveMalcolm> olimar: GTK has small "plugins" that handle text > input in different ways; they take keyboard input and convert > the keypresses into text being typed. If you right-click in an > entry box or gedit you can select the method. > <DaveMalcolm> "pre-edit" is where a preview of your edit appears > in the control; so for Japanese you might type the romanised form, > and have that appear in grey as the preedit string, which might > later get converted into hiragana/katakana/kanji characters > depending on further input. > > So now we know! Thanks, Dave. > > Error messages: > -------------- > > gcalctool is a great example for this. There are over _forty_ > strings which are error messages referring to the inner workings > of the code. For example: > > msgid "" > "*** B = %d ILLEGAL IN CALL TO MPCHK.\n" > "PERHAPS NOT SET BEFORE CALL TO AN MP ROUTINE ***\n" > msgid "" > "*** ERROR OCCURRED IN MPROOT, NEWTON ITERATION NOT CONVERGING PROPERLY ***\n" > msgid "*** ABS(X) NOT LESS THAN 1 IN CALL TO MPEXP1 ***\n" > > > Words that cause problems for different languages: > ------------------------------------------------- > * Multiple languages distinguish between "key" as in "thing that turns > in lock" and "thing on a keyboard". It's easy to guess when you're > translating gconf itself or acme itself which it should be. In other > files though, it's not so easy. > > * "Package" and "packet" seem to be the same word in more than one > language (Welsh, French) > > * "Render": > > Render is very hard to translate, at least for Danish. Sometimes it > means "draw", sometimes "generate" or "create", sometimes "copy to > screen". Usually it is some sort of combination. > -- Ole Laursen > Abel said it was the same for Chinese. > > * "Antialiasing": > > Perhaps it's just in Welsh, but we in the cy team had endless trouble > with this. Translating the parts of the word made no sense. Trying to > make up a word which explained what the technique meant made no sense. > > * "Meta" > > Anything involving the Greek prefix "Meta" makes olimar unhappy: > trying to find an Arabic equivalent is apparently hard. Metafile, > metadata.. okay, so it's a file about files, and data about data. > Great: so metacity is... erm. No. Ow. There's also the meta key, > but I don't actually remember seeing that in strings. > > Long strings of "Noun noun noun noun": > ------------------------------------- > Particularly horrible when one or more of the nouns can also be > used as a verb, and common in tooltips and menus. Examples: > > # gnome-terminal: NB: totally undocumented feature which jrb > explained to me recently. > msgid "S/Key Challenge Response" > > # libbonobo: > msgid "generic factory 'new' moniker" > -- Ole again. Abel suggested "all CORBA keywords" > as well :) > > # libbonobo: > msgid "ORB IOR handling moniker" > from Andraz > > # nautilus: > msgid: "Image Properties content view component" > from Reinout van Schouwen (.nl) > > #: Evolution-groupwise: > msgid "Evolution Calendar Groupwise backend" > > I can't remember where it's from, but the record is five nouns (some > of which might be verbs or instructions) in a row. Other "noun? verb? > what?" words can even be "End" and "Finish". "-ing" words have similar > problems. I think the technical term for the variety that isn't a > verb is "gerund", but I can't think of a good example in the po files > offhand (but they are there!) > > Miscellany: > ---------- > Strings that arrived without comment or which don't fit elsewhere. > > * "Resident memory set" > * "Minimum Shared Memory Size" > * "Minimum Resident Memory Size" > * "Request obsoletes service's data" > * msgid "Error checking error; no exception" > * "MInternal Error: Weird value (%ld) in do_test\n" > * "Model column to search through when searching through code" > * "FALSE displays the \"invisible char\" instead of the actual text (password mode)" > * "Just because a crosswalk looks like a hopscotch board doesn't mean it is one" > > Incidentally, I showed Alan the "FALSE displays.." one and he said > "Makes perfect sense to me." Because he knows what it's talking > about. Non-hacker translators don't. > > Some translators make a point of filing every string with a > problem in bugzilla. This takes _ages_ but it helps. But the > problem then is that there is a very limited period when you > can change them. > > Most translation teams use the translation status tables which > are at http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/status/ to keep > on top of things. The current 2.5 stuff for each language is at > http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/status/gnome-2.6/XX/developer-libs/… > http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/status/gnome-2.6/XX/desktop/index.h… > > (put any language code in XX: sr, cy, de..) > > When strings are changed at all, it upsets all the statistics. So > you have to find a time when you _can_ change them, because those > statistics do matter and do help you keep on top of things. It is > really really disheartening to see your 100% app has suddenly gone > to 81% because someone has altered all the tabs inside the strings; > and even worse when it's a much more substantial change which > requires you to do a lot more than just remove the fuzzy marker. > And towards the end of a release cycle is not the time to do it. > > But some of these strings really do have to be changed, or explanations > appended in the comments next to the function that contains the things. > For example, Epiphany goes to the appropriate language page on Google > because of this comment: > > #. Translators you should change these links to respect your locale. > #. * For instance in .nl these should be > #. * "http://www.google.nl" and "http://www.google.nl/search?q=%s" > > Others found with a quick grep: > > evolution/po/cy.po:#. This is a filename. Translators take note. > gnome-applets/po/cy.po:#. Translators - The + and - refer to increasing and decreasing the volume. > > I don't have a complete checkout of all CVS, but I have quite a > few modules out. But that's about all there is. A few more of > "Translators: this 'plane' is not the sort that flies but instead > a term used by Unicode' would be really nice. (Actually, that's > a bad example, because apparently the place that appears is not > a place you can put such a comment: but it's a good example of > the sort of word that might need clarifying.) > > There used to be a string review period in the release cycle. > It concentrated on the English as far as I know. Making the > English clearer certainly helps translators, but even then > there can be problems. Most translators do the gnome-glossary > early on as a sort of standardising terminology exercise, but > even so we (cy) didn't realise that "control" was the approved > term for "widget" when we met it later on in po files. > > So there you are. I don't really know what the solution is, but > I do know that in between 2.4 (we which had at 100% in Welsh) > and now, we have acquired 1000 fuzzy strings and 750 untranslated > in apps which we had done completely; and another 6000 strings > to do from the list of "proposed" so far. That's on top of > 16,000 strings which remained constant. That's a lot of strings, > and I dread the changing of them in order to make them more > intelligible to other teams. > > But at some stage, some of these have to be fixed in the originals, > which means they become "untranslated" or "fuzzy" in the files > of every team which has done them already. It will make it easier > for new teams. But I'm not looking forward to the process! > > Telsa > > _______________________________________________ > gnome-hackers mailing list > gnome-hackers@...45... > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-hackers > >

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Win32 Text Alpha value
by bulia byak 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

>But Bulia said he fixed it in the default preferences so it surley should >have created a new file with a value of 1 in place? Default preferences are in effect when there's no such preference in your local file. Delete your preferences.xml, run inkscape and see if text is at alpha 1. If not, perhaps your build is not the latest one. >This does not work. It is still overwriting my preferences.xml. This file >gets generated at c:\program files\Inkscape\inkscape\preferences.xml. Is it overwritten during installation, or during the first run of the program? In the first case, it's the installer issue, perhaps you should ask Bob Jamison for help with it (I don't know what is the installer used in the latest builds, if any). In the second case, there's some problem in the program code; Mental, I think you were the last to change that part, can you comment? BTW what is your version of windows? _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Win32 Text Alpha value
by bulia byak 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

>When Inkscape opens normally the text is not 100% black. It comes up >slightly gray. This is due to the Alpha fill level opening at 0.75. This is >easy to fix in preferences since it seems to come from the "tools" style = >"fill:none; fill-opacity: 0.75;" Changing this to 1 fixes the problem. OK, I fixed this in the program's default preferences. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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dialogs toggle
by bulia byak 04 Jan '04

04 Jan '04

Now F12 and ` toggle visibility of all open dialogs - please test. Feel free to suggest another keyboard binding (or whether only one of the two should be left). When dialogs are hidden and you open a new dialog, all hidden ones are unhidden - I think that's logical, but please argue if you can think of another approach. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] more info on crashes
by bulia byak 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

>In sp_node_context_selection_changed, what should happen if nc->nodepath >and nc->knot_holder are both null? Currenly inkscape is dying in >sp_repr_remove_listener_by_data possibly because it is being passed >unitialized data. Thanks Robert! The fix is in, please test. This fixes at least the inset-in-node-edit crash, and I will now test node editing via XML editor more thoroughly to see if there are any other problems (not that I did not test it before...) _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/features&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin…

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more info on crashes
by Robert Crosbie 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

Since I can't seem to post to the inkscape jabber conference room, I'll post an obervation here. Related to my last two posts: In sp_node_context_selection_changed, what should happen if nc->nodepath and nc->knot_holder are both null? Currenly inkscape is dying in sp_repr_remove_listener_by_data possibly because it is being passed unitialized data. This is the source of many of my crashes. Rob. http://members.rogers.com/rcrosbie _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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windows profile directory
by MenTaLguY 03 Jan '04

03 Jan '04

I'm about to commit some changes to CVS re: the profile directory. This one removes some of the less portable code (WTF did someone use creat()!? we have fopen()!) and reduces the number of platform-specific ifdefs to three. With some work it could probably be reduced further. Also this fixes a problem with creating the profile directory initially. The last change is that on Windows the directory is called "Inkscape" instead of ".inkscape", to be marginally kinder to Explorer and more Windows-like anyway. (if we want to be really good Windows citizens, we should look up the locale-dependent name of the "Application Data" profile directory and create our subdirectory there, but that's a much bigger job. Bulia's change is a _big_ improvement and gets us much of the way there.) -mental

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