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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Window Manager Modifiers
by jiho 06 Aug '07

06 Aug '07

On 2007-August-05 , at 00:13 , Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:51:10 +0200 jiho <jo.irisson@...400...> babbled: >> First of all, it was not my intention to start a flame war or >> anything. It is just my personal opinion that what lacks the more >> cruelly to Linux desktop currently is consistency and keybindings is >> one particularly clear example. I hoped that mentioning it on this >> list, where the problem is regularly brought up, would get the ball >> rolling to the correct people (be they freedesktop or someone else). >> Anyway, I happily use Mac OS X (where keybindings are quite >> consistent and can be edited easily anyway) and won't "fight" for >> linux to get better... I just hope it will, because I like the >> development model more ;-) > > here's the problem. in windows or OSX - you have no CHOICE. you get > your "wm" > with the bindings it comes with - and that's it. sure - some of > these bindings > can be changed - and that is no different to x11 and window > managers -the > difference being there is not just 1 wm. there are many - with many > many many > different features, ideas and design goals. they will all probably > have > different needs for bindings based on these features. asking every > wm to NOT > use some modifier or to all use exactly the same isn't going to > happen - Actually, this is what I hope will happen ;) I don't think everything can work with everything else if there is not at least a little planning done ahead. This kind of planning is done for each program but currently independently because most are managed by different teams. It would be good to have this done at a little higher level, for the purpose of unification. I think this can be compared with document formats: of course every word processing software could work with its own, custom made format but wouldn't it be better if all used odt? I think it would. Of course the point is not to force every WM to do change its keybindings but I think it wouldn't hurt to have a standard defined, for interoperability and best usability, and then projects who care can adopt it. FreeDektop seems to be the right organization to define such a standard and, in my opinion, this standard should be "use META, and combinations of META with other modifiers, for all WM/ desktop level keyboard shortcuts" for the reasons I explained in my previous email. JiHO --- http://jo.irisson.free.fr/

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Window Manager Modifiers
by Ted Gould 05 Aug '07

05 Aug '07

Hello all, In the Inkscape project we're constantly butting up against the problem where there simply aren't enough modifiers for everything we'd like to implement. This means for most of our tools there is a constant battle to figure out how we can fit everything into Alt, Ctrl and Shift. We manage. But, many window managers are using alt click to drag windows which takes 1/3 of our options away. There are lots of solutions to this, I'm curious which way makes sense to people. - Applications could start using the "Meta" key. I don't like this because it seems to be something that is rather machine specific. I don't think applications should be using this modifier. - There is some Freedesktop spec that says Window Managers should only use the meta modifier for their actions. - Somewhere there is a spec that allows a window manager hint to be set by applications to say "I'd really like Alt, please!!!" - Some users don't get functionality out of some apps unless they reconfigure the apps or their desktop. My personal favorite here is "2" -- I think that the Meta key could be turned into the "desktop" key where other desktop actions could be assigned to it also. --Ted

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Adding more tags to svg files
by Kent Tenney 04 Aug '07

04 Aug '07

Howdy, A bit of fiddling leads me to believe that it's ok to add tags to Inkscape's top level <svg> tag. Inkscape seems to assign them an id and then ignore them. Is this correct? Is there danger of other svg applications discarding unknown tags, or Inkscape doing this in the future? Thanks, Kent

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] [Inkscape-cvs] SF.net SVN: inkscape: [15640] inkscape/trunk/src
by MenTaLguY 04 Aug '07

04 Aug '07

Hi, this commit broke the trunk build, as some required files were not added. Please also commit src/display/nr-filter-component-transfer.cpp src/display/nr-filter-component-transfer.h (and anything else missing) as soon as possible! Thanks, -mental On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 21:18 -0700, jucablues@...58... wrote: > Revision: 15640 > http://inkscape.svn.sourceforge.net/inkscape/?rev=15640&view=rev > Author: jucablues > Date: 2007-08-03 21:18:36 -0700 (Fri, 03 Aug 2007) > > Log Message: > ----------- > boilerplate code for the remaining filters. My next commits will > probably deal with setting default attribute values for these filters > > Modified Paths: > -------------- > inkscape/trunk/src/display/Makefile_insert > inkscape/trunk/src/display/nr-filter.cpp > inkscape/trunk/src/sp-fecolormatrix.cpp > inkscape/trunk/src/sp-fecolormatrix.h > inkscape/trunk/src/sp-feflood.cpp > inkscape/trunk/src/sp-feflood.h > inkscape/trunk/src/sp-femorphology.cpp > inkscape/trunk/src/sp-femorphology.h > > Added Paths: > ----------- > inkscape/trunk/src/display/nr-filter-colormatrix.cpp > inkscape/trunk/src/display/nr-filter-colormatrix.h > inkscape/trunk/src/display/nr-filter-flood.cpp > inkscape/trunk/src/display/nr-filter-flood.h > inkscape/trunk/src/display/nr-filter-morphology.cpp > inkscape/trunk/src/display/nr-filter-morphology.h > > > This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world's largest Open Source development site. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-cvs mailing list > Inkscape-cvs(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-cvs

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Window Manager Modifiers
by Ted Gould 04 Aug '07

04 Aug '07

On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 12:02 +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > well... this is no new problem. it's been around for years. in the end - the > wm's win, because you need one for a sane desktop. whatever they steal in terms > of key (and mouse) bindings is what a user comes to EXPECT from functionality > on ALL their windows (eg - alt+left mouse to move, alt+right mouse for wm > window menu etc.). there is a kind of pseudo-standard (just by virtue that a > lot of wm's come this way by default) that there seems to be a common convention > that alt + button is what wm's take - anything else if open for apps. I guess my real concern is that it's alt today, meta tomorrow and control next week? It seems like in general that there should be some consistency here. That way someone knows where their mouse events are going (though I doubt they'll think about it that way). > now i ask - why do u think it's bad apps use met - but you now promote wm's to > use it instead of alt? you are basically saying "i don't want to use meta - so i > want to force wm's to do the thing i am not willing to". at the end of the day > - this is highly unfair as your point about the meta key being "not always > there" is valid - and all you do is put the problem onto the wm's. No, the reason that I was suggesting that a WM use meta is because in general, I think the desktop knows a lot more about the hardware that it's working with. Application do, and should, know very little. Things like accessibility and keyboard configuration are done at a desktop/WM level -- so I thought it would make more sense to also use, or not use, the meta key at that level. I believe that there are also internationalization issues here, though I'm ignorant to other keyboard layouts myself. > personally- i think you need to find a way to do what you need without needing > more and more modifier keys. i know a lot of wm's will keep being shipped using > alt+button because they have been shipped that way for 10+ years. it's been a > default feature for a decade and it's not going away. you need to find a way to > work with it. i would SOONER specify "alt + button is reserved for wm's - apps > need to use anything else" because wm's "were there first", "steal the buttons > before your app can do anything about it" and "it's an incredibly useful > feature to have on ALL windows" as opposed to losing it on ALL windows just so > 1 app can have more bindings. If that's the case, I think FreeDesktop should have something that says that. I think we should give as many bindings as possible to apps in general. > the only sensible suggestion here i think is some form of hint on the window > that says "i use alt+button 1, alt+button 2, ctrl+button 1 etc." so the wm > MIGHT be nice and disable any of its own bindings if they conflict - just on > that window. the problem here now is inconsistent UI experience and control - i > go to my inkscape window and press alt+button 1 to drag the window and it > doesn't - it does something else. the element of least surprise is violated. > every window i have does it - except this one now. so though it is technically > solvable to give you bindings back - it now leads to a bad UI experience and > users i think will be better off if you try and stick to the pseudo-conventions > in-place? remember this problem exists for key bindings as well - you could > complain that "wm's steal alt+tab from apps - i want wm's to stop that so i can > get more key combinations for my app". it's not going to happen - there are > many common key-bindings too that wm's use and there are pseudo-conventions > there. I agree that the bindings should not be overloaded. The only way I could see this making sense is if the WM provided some sort of feedback to the user that they have been overloaded -- and icon on the title bar or something. But, I think in general that would be confusing. I general, today we are seeing that confusion. People regularly e-mail the Inkscape lists complaining they can't get features to work (not only alt-mouse) because those keys are stolen by the WM or Desktop or whatever. This is a more than minorly annoying support issue. --Ted

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Screencasts of new features...
by ryan lerch 03 Aug '07

03 Aug '07

Hi all, just thought i would hit the list to tell you all that i have been doing a set of blog posts recently covering the upcoming neat features in 0.46. So far i have covered: On Canvas Gradient Editing: http://ryanler.wordpress.com/2007/07/25/inkscape-on-canvas-gradient-editing/ Touch Selection: http://ryanler.wordpress.com/2007/07/26/147/ Flood Fill (Bucket Fill) http://ryanler.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/inkscape-upcoming-feature-flood-fil… Engraving Toolbox (Tracking a Path) http://ryanler.wordpress.com/2007/08/02/upcoming-inkscape-features-engraver… Engraving Toolbox (Node Sculpting) http://ryanler.wordpress.com/2007/08/03/upcoming-inkscape-features-engraver… If you have any more ideas / requests, just shoot me an email, and ill see what i can do... Cheers, ryanlerch

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siggraph last minute presentation in san diego?
by Jon Phillips 03 Aug '07

03 Aug '07

Heya, does anyone in LA/Southern California area want to present at siggraph tomorrow about Inkscape in a panel? I was supposed to present at this conference, but am stuck in taipei at wikimania. Yes, I should've emailed before, but maybe Ted or Jon Cruz might be tempted ;) I can ship off my slide show on the subject. http://sandbox.siggraph.org/program.html http://sandbox.siggraph.org/panels.html The presentation is around noon and would get you into this confernce. It is the largest graphics conference in the world. Jon -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 jon@...235... http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: rejon@...896... IRC: rejon@...897...

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siggraph last minute presentation in san diego?
by Jon Phillips 03 Aug '07

03 Aug '07

Heya, does anyone in LA/Southern California area want to present at siggraph tomorrow about Inkscape in a panel? I was supposed to present at this conference, but am stuck in taipei at wikimania. Yes, I should've emailed before, but maybe Ted or Jon Cruz might be tempted ;) I can ship off my slide show on the subject. http://sandbox.siggraph.org/program.html http://sandbox.siggraph.org/panels.html The presentation is around noon and would get you into this confernce. It is the largest graphics conference in the world. Jon -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 jon@...235... http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: rejon@...896... IRC: rejon@...897...

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rev 15630 linking error
by bulia byak 02 Aug '07

02 Aug '07

Any ideas? It compiled fine a couple days ago... ui/dialog/libuidialog.a(filedialog.o): In function `Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileOpenDialog::create(Gtk::Window&, Glib::ustring const&, Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileDialogType, Glib::ustring const&)':ui/dialog/filedialog.cpp:40: undefined reference to `Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileOpenDialogImplGtk::FileOpenDialogImplGtk(Gtk::Window&, Glib::ustring const&, Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileDialogType, Glib::ustring const&)' ui/dialog/libuidialog.a(filedialog.o): In function `Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileSaveDialog::create(Gtk::Window&, Glib::ustring const&, Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileDialogType, Glib::ustring const&, Glib::ustring const&)':ui/dialog/filedialog.cpp:57: undefined reference to `Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileSaveDialogImplGtk::FileSaveDialogImplGtk(Gtk::Window&, Glib::ustring const&, Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileDialogType, Glib::ustring const&, Glib::ustring const&)' ui/dialog/libuidialog.a(filedialog.o): In function `Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileExportDialog::create(Gtk::Window&, Glib::ustring const&, Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileDialogType, Glib::ustring const&, Glib::ustring const&)':ui/dialog/filedialog.cpp:74: undefined reference to `Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileExportDialogImpl::FileExportDialogImpl(Gtk::Window&, Glib::ustring const&, Inkscape::UI::Dialog::FileDialogType, Glib::ustring const&, Glib::ustring const&)' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make[2]: *** [inkscape] Error 1 -- bulia byak Inkscape. Draw Freely. http://www.inkscape.org

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referencing elements within an external SVG
by Felipe Sanches 02 Aug '07

02 Aug '07

SVG 1.1 spec says that: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#URIReference 5.3 References and the 'defs' element 5.3.1 Overview: *the 'use' <http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#UseElement> element can reference any local or non-local resource http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#ImageElement Section 5.7 The 'image' element: *Unlike 'use' <http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#UseElement>, the 'image' element cannot reference elements within an SVG file. So... I imagine that the 'use' element should allow me to reference elements within an external SVG (i.e. a non-local resource) but I try to do that and I get nothing! Any clue on that? **************** This is my use.svg file: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?> <svg xmlns:svg="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <use xlink:href="file:///home/aluno/Desktop/circle.svg" /> </svg> **************** This is my circle.svg file: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?> <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"> <circle id="mycircle" cx="300" cy="225" r="150" fill="red"/> </svg>

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