- Inkscape Devel - Inkscape Mailman

[Gitlab Migration] Computers doing computer things
by Ted Gould 08 Jun '17

08 Jun '17

Hey folks, Things are going well, they just take a while. Got about 20 out of 100 branches converted over. I'm a little worried that it might take beyond I'm willing to stay up tomorrow evening as the last test import took about 18 hours (then run the address sanitizer and upload). I'll continue to give progress tomorrow, but I wanted to give folks a heads up in case it takes a bit longer than originally expected. Cheers, Ted

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[Gitlab Migration] Branches Frozen
by Ted Gould 08 Jun '17

08 Jun '17

Hello, Bazaar branches are frozen. Migration to Git has been started. It'll take a while :-) Ted

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[Gitlab Migration] Freeze Bazaar in about an hour
by Ted Gould 07 Jun '17

07 Jun '17

Hey folks, Just sending a notice that I plan on freezing the Bazaar repos in about an hour or so. Last minute commits should land now. Thanks,

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Marketing Inkscape - Survey Preview
by Ryan Gorley 07 Jun '17

07 Jun '17

Hello All, You probably saw that I pushed out a link to the survey in the user list. I've also pushed it out on inkscapecommunity.com. Anywhere else you recommend? The more that participate, the better. If you use Twitter, Mastodon, or Google Plus, please help give my posts a boost by re-sharing at these links: - https://twitter.com/ryangorley/status/872293309586079744 - https://mastodon.social/web/statuses/8227527 - https://plus.google.com/u/0/105767379162162441315/posts/VZjttRuDaLU Or share the original link (https://goo.gl/forms/ReZkSjOMokkaoSln2) to your hordes of fans however you wish. :) Thanks for the help and if you haven't take the survey yet, please do. Ryan Gorley @ Dijt <https://dijt.co/> On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Ryan Gorley <ryan@...3508...> wrote: > There's actually a fairly short list of things that would make >> Inkscape ideal for graphic design. > > > If graphic designers are our primary audience, then we need to look very > seriously at closing that gap, and *beyond* at how we can make Inkscape > better than alternatives in terms of usability, features, and performance. > > Product design, on the other hand will >> pull it into territory that is better left for 3D modeling and CAD >> programs. There are already specialist FLOSS programs for this, also >> vector based (Blender, FreeCAD, etc.). From this perspective, graphic > > design is the only choice with enough general overlapping >> functionality to make it useful for the broadest range of applications >> related to what Inkscape does best - 2D vector graphics. >> > > Makes sense to me. I'm not sure how many people are using the tool this > way. > > >> The reason designers are entrenched in the Adobe "ecosystem" is that's >> what is taught in university, and when they look for alternatives, >> there aren't any programs that fit the bill entirely for vector >> graphics. They are looking to replace Illustrator, the functionality >> of which isn't covered by any other FLOSS project. In fact, Inkscape >> is key to making pro graphic design possible on Linux. Adobe isn't >> even an option on Linux. So a decision to move away from graphic >> design would be a quite terrible loss for all manner FLOSS artists. > > > I agree. And just to clarify, I'm not advocating abandoning anyone, I am > just hoping to identify a market who could be persuaded to use Inkscape on > its own merits now (or in the near future), and not strictly because it is > the only vector drawing tool available on Linux or that it's free of charge. > > >> That's true, if tools (in Inkscape) are built to utilise the svg spec > > to produce pain-free vector animations (for example), or style sheets >> that integrate easily with web content, all those things will be >> beneficial to designers of all types. Producing software that takes >> the complexity out of it is good for both techies, and non techies >> alike. >> > > Yes, yes, yes! > > >> Mac support is something to work on, but the fact remains, there >> really are not any other good options for vector illustration on >> Linux. I think a FLOSS focused vector program should fill the gap in >> tools for FLOSS operating systems as a primary goal, regardless of >> what other more popular OSes are out there. > > > It's a worthy goal, and I would sure appreciate it because I use desktop > Linux. :) From a marketing standpoint, however, I'm not sure we're going to > find new interest and greater adoption from the few of us on Linux, since > we really don't have any choice anyway. Let's not abandon Linux users, but > we must also acknowledge that statistically speaking almost everyone else > is different than us in this regard. Once they're using Inkscape, maybe > there will not be as much keeping those graphic designers back from using > Linux also. > > >> We gain no ground by being >> afraid to go up against Adobe's Creative Suite. >> > > Believe me, I'd love to take them on. We can't ignore their dominance in > the graphic design market however. The only way to beat a giant like Adobe > is to use their strength against them. They have an entrenched user-base, > who will keep them back from trying new and innovative things, especially > in regards to workflows and interface design, because people don't > generally like to change the way they do things. This makes them slow. They > are also trying to be a tool for as many people as possible. This makes > their software complex. And lastly they have broad adoption in the market > and have more to lose than to gain by trying new things. This makes them > risk averse. To beat them we cannot be these same things. > > >> I submit that the path of least resistance is not necessarily the path >> to success. Making Inkscape for a niche group of readily accepting >> users will keep Inkscape a niche program used by a small segment of >> the population, and it will leave a large segment of designers who >> want to use free software waiting for something else to replace >> Inkscape as their vector editor. Right now, nothing else comes close. >> > > I totally agree. And thank your for engaging in this conversation. It > helps a lot! >

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Fwd: Re: last used style
by Miguel Lopez 07 Jun '17

07 Jun '17

-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] last used style Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 05:57:11 +0200 From: Olof Bjarnason <olof.bjarnason@...400...><mailto:olof.bjarnason@...400...> To: Miguel Lopez <reptillia39@...3425...><mailto:reptillia39@...3425...> +100. Den 1 juni 2017 05:33 skrev "Miguel Lopez" <reptillia39@...3425...<mailto:reptillia39@...3425...>>: I only use last used style as a workaround to not being able to set up fill/stroke before I create a object akin to Illustrator. You know what would save time? Being able to set up fill/stroke before a creation of a object, and at any time akin to Illustrator. In Illustrator, you go change the fill, and stroke, and objects will be created with those before you even make a object. On 5/31/2017 11:24 PM, brynn wrote: > Hi Friends, > I've been trying to get my nerve up to ask about this, since I > first used Inkscape, 10 years ago. So here goes. > > Can anyone give me a good reason for having all the tools > styles set, by default, to last used style? > > In 10 years, I have never met, seen, or heard of anyone who > needs this feature; while we have to answer this same general problem > for newbies over and over and over again. Countless times I've > answered these messages. I'll bet I don't even need to give examples, > do I? > > I would guess it's the single biggest stumbling block for > newbies. It certainly must be the single most asked question by > newbies. At least in forums, and probably LP Answers. > > I can imagine rare scenarios, where someone might actually use > this feature. But if I want an object the exact same style as the one > before, I simply duplicate (or copy/paste, or paste style). So it's a > mystery to me why last used style should be the default behavior, when > we have all these other perfectly suitable features, which don't cause > newbies (and those who help them) so many headaches. > > I understand if we might not want to throw it out the window > ((although that's what I would do with it, haha)). But is there any > chance we could at least not have it to be the default behavior? > > When we first download and open Inkscape for the first time, > all the tools have a characteristic style. If I recall, it's a pink > rectangle, light blue circle, yellow star, and green spiral, with > darker tones for the strokes, and all partially transparent. And for > Pencil and Pen, I guess it's the black stroke. > > Could we just keep those styles, but set all the tools for > "This tool's own style" instead of "Last used style"? And could we > have this the default behavior for when newbies first install Inkscape? > > Oh, it would save us SO, so much time, those of us who answer > newbie questions, day in and day out. I'd be so happy to write up a > bug/feature request report for this, if there isn't some serious > objection. > > Thanks for listening, > brynn > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Inkscape-devel mailing list Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:Inkscape-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

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News item about the new manual work?
by brynn 06 Jun '17

06 Jun '17

Hi Friends, As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the recent new work on the new manual? I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'm thinking Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if we decide to do it. I think it would help in community-building, to keep the wider community up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and Docs list subscribers think? All best, brynn

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All hands to Merge Requests!
by Martin Owens 06 Jun '17

06 Jun '17

Dear developers, There are 23 active merge requests into our bzr branch system. Please go to: https://code.launchpad.net/inkscape/+activereviews And find a merge request to review. Reviewing this code, we can decide if it's code we should have or if it's safe to discard. Some of the items are "needs fixing", if the fix looks interesting or important and you think you can bring it over the line and get it in, please do help. And we can consolidate and clean up the merge requests before the great git gearing. Give a little of your time for the project to get us to git. Thanks everyone! Best Regards, Martin Owens Bazaar Sanitation Services

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gcode tools support lacking
by brynn 06 Jun '17

06 Jun '17

Hi Friends, It's been well over a year since the team who created Inkscape's gcode tools, have answered requests for support in their forum, cnc-club (see link in Extensions menu > Gcodetools > About). There currently are not any users who participate in forums, who understand these tools who are apparently interested in helping. Is there anyone in the community who would be willing to be contacted (in lieu of regularly visiting forums) with questions about the gcode tools, when they come up (which is more and more lately)? Or does anyone know of any resources, such as tutorials? I only know of one...oh great, and I guess I've misplaced the link. But it's fairly limited. (I've even offered to write tutorials for the gcode tools, if the cnc-club forum would collaborate - no answer.) Personally, if the community can't provide support for our own tools, well.... I guess I'd have to start refering users elsewhere, for producing the gcode. Some have already started referring elsewhere (http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=32491) Of course I don't want to do that. But this is a frustrating. Can the development community provide any guidance? Thank you very much, brynn

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Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: last used style #2
by C R 06 Jun '17

06 Jun '17

Sorry, sent this directly to brynn by mistake. Forwarding to the list, read below. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "C R" <cajhne@...400...> Date: 6 Jun 2017 1:15 p.m. Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Fwd: Re: last used style #2 To: "brynn" <brynn@...3133...> Cc: > The workflow is draw first, style second. (Personally I like that > routine much better than choosing the style first. So when you're making > changes, please make it optional, so that those who prefer the "old" way, > can continue without altering their personal routines.) The new way will not affect the old way of doing it if you like that better. The idea is that the user should be able, at any point to select a fill and stroke, and have the next thing drawn be that colour. This will not change if you want to select a different colour after you draw - newly drawn/selected items will still be filled with the colours chosen by the user for stroke and fill after they are drawn.selected in the same manner as it does now. The changes add the ability to use the Lower-Left stroke and fill widget as a master widget for colour, so you don't have to set the fill/stroke colour in the tool dialog (upper-left) - which most users seem to miss anyway. One colour widget to rule them all, one to find them, one to bring them all, and in the Inkscape bind them. -C > > So draw a rectangle. Yikes, nothing's there. I can see the dotted > lines and arrows (i.e. bounding box and selection handles), but my rectangle > isn't there. Yes, this is why it's nice to set the draw colour/fill before the rectangle is drawn. > Why isn't it there? Because the last time you drew a rectangle, > eventually you made it completely transparent. Now, every rectangle you > draw will be transparent, until you change it. Oh, you changed it to blue? > Now every rectangle will be blue, until you change one. If the user has chosen to draw blue rectangles, reverting to some other default colour doesn't make a lot of sense. In most drawing programs, the "current colour" (the one shown in the colour widget) is what the drawn shape will be. I draw a line - I make it red. I draw another line... but it's reverted back to the default line colour... I'm wanting to draw red lines, that's why I went through the trouble of changing the colour. I have to change it every single time = big big waste of time. To get around this, as others have noted, the workflow is draw a bunch of lines, select them all, then paste style. Yea... it's not great. It's what people are complaining about. This is why it's simpler to have one widget to control colour. Currently the user has to look all over to see where to change the default colour, and are baffled when the colour changes back to the default colour when they draw a new shape. > As I said before, it's easily the most asked question, both in forums > and LP Answers. And in my opinion, well, a ridiculous feature. Simplifying the interface into a single colour widget will help, also if the user changes things outside this colour widget, new objects should not retain the transparency settings. - This more than anything causes confusion. A distinction needs to be made between object transparency and fill alpha colour. Object transparency, controlled by the slider in the stroke/fill dialog should not affect the current colour (and thus not the affect the colour/transparency of newly drawn items). - This, more often than not is what causes completely invisible objects, and it's a pain for the user to try and figure out which settings are causing the object to be transparent. It's a difficult problem, but with your help, I'm sure we can come up with a solution that works better for everyone. > Most > newbies pick up Inkscape, and they're happily clicking away, not thinking > about anything, but marvelling over the awesome program. An hour later, or > a day, or a week, and they don't remember that they were playing with either > the alpha channel or Opacity slider. And also in my opinion, it's not > intuitive that whatever change I make is permanent for the tool. Yes exactly. This is part of what I'm working on remedying. We are on the same page here. > What's the solution? Explain to everyone how to change the style > settings for all their tools. This implies there is some means of forcing people to read tutorials. The "happily clicking away" thing is what needs to continue. The tool configuration landmines are what need to be replaced - an easy way to do that is to re-think how transparency and colour are applied, and provide a more intuitive and simpler interface that doesn't have vanishing bits. I believe we collectively can do this without adding a bottleneck to anyones workflow, and removing the substantial ones that we all have just gotten used to living with because that's how it's always been. :) > Anyway, I'm rather shocked that the mailing list crowd doesn't > understand what the problem is. I guess it underscores once again how far > removed many developers are, from the user community. Many people in this thread use Inkscape professionally, myself included (every working day, for a professional portfolio you wouldn't even believe was made in FLOSS). So let's not go the us vs. them route. There is no "them", only us. Let's try and find a solution that works for everyone. > Would it be such a hard thing to do, to make the default doc have all > the tools set for "own style"? I think for some tools this makes sense, but only if "own style" is replaced by "last used" style for that tool. If I am adding text to a doc, I don't want to have to change the colour from some default value every time I add more text. If I'm drawing shapes, I expect that Inkscape will preserve the colour I've chosen, not change it back to some default value until I tell it to change the colour. If I'm drawing lines, I'd like the same as for shapes, though often the fill gets in the way. It's not that big a deal to change the fill to transparent, but maybe a good solution is to change the fill to none by default, then add fill colour if the line becomes a closed shape. This is not a simple problem, and understanding all the implications is half the battle. Let's continue to work on it together. -C > Thanks again, > brynn > > -----Original Message----- From: C R > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 2:12 PM > To: brynn > Cc: Inkscape-Devel ; J. F. Lemaire ; Martin Owens ; Olof Bjarnason > Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Fwd: Re: last used style #2 > > > Hi brynn. I think maybe we were confused about what you wanted. Sorry > we guessed wrong. On the plus side, it opened up discussion of the > tools, and how styles are used/reused, and it seems no one likes how > it currently is very much - Which is why I'm making mockups of how it > could work. I'll try and do a video showing the steps for each option. > > It's taking a lot of thought, and consideration of different > workflows, because the tools and how they function differ, so coming > up with a unified solution that makes everyone happy will take a bit > of time. > > Can you advise in particular the workflow you are using - I think we > would benefit from an example or two. I'll try to get in touch with > you on irc this week to discuss it so we properly address your > problem. > > Thanks for your patience! > -C > > > On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 6:45 AM, brynn <brynn@...3133...> wrote: >> >> Hi Everyone, >> Sorry to have made that post just before I logged off for a day and >> a >> half. Aside from being a little afraid of what the response might be, I >> honestly didn't expect much response! >> >> Also honestly, I was totally lost with most of the discussion. And >> some of it, I can't even make a connection to what I asked. It's almost >> like my comment about holding onto something for 10 years, prompted >> everyone >> else to comment what they've been holding onto for years. But I don't >> think >> it ever came back around to my question. >> >> Moving the tool style indicator, or the selected object indicator, >> or >> when Fill and Stroke is called up, or setting style before/after, etc., >> (if >> I followed it all)..... Yikes, I'm totally lost! >> >> Changing whether we can set the style before or after drawing the >> object won't solve the problem I'm having. Not unless you somehow make it >> impossible to draw first and choose style second. And then you'll have >> complaints from all the "old" users who have it in their workflow to draw >> first, style second. >> >> I'll try to keep up with whatever mockups you come up with, and >> offer >> comments. >> >> But if I can just reiterate my original request (which doesn't >> require a ui change afaik). Please, can we make all the tools set for >> "This >> tool's own style" as the default? I don't mean take away "Last Used >> Style" >> as an option (well, I was joking when I mentioned it). I just mean, for >> the >> default document (which is what newbies use 99% of the time) can it start >> with everything set for "...Own Style"? >> >> It would not require current users, who might be using "last >> style", >> to go through and change everything, because their prefs file will keep >> them >> using whatever they already use. This would ONLY affect newbies, and make >> them less confused (and those of us who answer support requests, less >> bothered!) >> >> Not that I know much about programming. But what little I >> understand >> about how Inkscape works, it seems like it wouldn't take much time to make >> this change. Wouldn't it be just changing one thing, for each tool, in >> the >> default doc? Or maybe it's a change in the original prefs file? >> >> Since I didn't hear any objections - not to what I asked anyway, I >> guess I will make the feature request. >> >> Thanks again, >> brynn >> >> PS - (Re-titled this, in case of comments on my original request.) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Martin Owens >> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2017 7:51 AM >> To: Olof Bjarnason ; C R >> Cc: J. F. Lemaire ; inkscape-devel >> Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] Fwd: Re: last used style >> >> On Fri, 2017-06-02 at 11:01 +0200, Olof Bjarnason wrote: >>> >>> >>> Just trying to make this happen, and it won't happen if you do not >>> get buy in from some developer that has the time and energy to make >>> this happen... >> >> >> >> This kind of UX is right in my wheelhouse. Please add me as principle >> developer to work on the design. To which we can then test functionally >> with users. >> >> Best regards, Martin Owens >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Inkscape-devel mailing list >> Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > >

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Alternative glyphs
by Tavmjong Bah 06 Jun '17

06 Jun '17

Hi, Many fonts have alternative glyphs for some unicode codepoints. These glyphs can be accessed by enabling OpenType tables such as 'salt', 'ss01', etc. Inkscape has supported using such alternative glyphs through the 'Variants' tab of the 'Text and Font' dialog (under the last section, 'Feature Settings'). But one problem that was pointed out is that it is difficult to know what alternative glyphs are available for a particular font. I've just added code in trunk that will display such alternative glyphs in the 'Feature Settings' section. The GUI leaves a bit to be desired and there is some more work to do to show all alternative glyphs properly (for example, font style is ignored) but it is a start. Please test it out and give me your feedback. Tav

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