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RE: [Inkscape-devel] 'HACKING' file updated
by bulia byak 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

>I've rewritten the old (Sodipodi) HACKING file to make it shorter and to >briefly outline our development philosophy for those wanting to get >involved in the future. I've enclosed it below for review. Good work, thanks! Now it would be great to revise (or remove?) the old NEWS and TODO files... _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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transforms
by MenTaLguY 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

bulia- Please feel free to remove the "remove transform" verb. It's not normally useful, and deleting the transform= attribute using the XML editor is almost as easy. HOWEVER, please do not take the "auto-flattening" transforms behavior any further -- particularly, don't apply group transformations to group members instead. That way lies madness and severe numerical problems (errors will accumulate rapidly over time). Also bear in mind the expectations of users who use Inkscape to make trivial edits to existing (possibly hand-structured) SVG files. I would prefer instead that transforms were _never_ flattened unless explicitly requested. I will explain my reasoning further when I get home tonight. -mental

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Thank you
by Sebastian Stein 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

I like to thank Inkscape's developers for this great application. I first tried sodipodi, but the user interface is a mess and it lacks such simple things like drawing a circle. Please go on with your great work! Steinchen

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] remove/apply transformations?
by bulia byak 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

Thanks to everyone for responses! My summary: I was _not_ proposing to remove support for transform=, of course. I just want to make it more consistent and less confusing for new users. So here's a more detailed proposal: There's a switch in "tool options" for selector between "optimize" and "preserve" transformations. The "preserve" option causes all manual scales and drags in selector to add transform=, while "optimize" (the default) writes transformations to the object coordinates. I suspect that the "preserve" mode is buggy simply because it's not the default, and anyway it seems to apply only to manual operations in selector. What I want to do instead: - Make this switch truly global, affecting all transform operations no matter what caused them. - Make sure the "optimize" mode is as complete as possible, i.e. all commands write as much as possible to the object attributes in this mode (absolute "optimization" is not possible, as some transforms cannot be native for some objects and require a transform= anyway). - Make sure the "preserve" mode is equally global and complete, and thoroughly test it. - Add "apply transform" command for those switching between these two modes. Perhaps it might be combined with some other cleanup operations and called simply "cleanup" or "optimize", because "apply transform" is too confusing (I would expect it to call something like the Transformation dialog, not make some invisible change to XML). - Remove the "remove transform" command - it's really just confusing, and in any case it's easy to do the same by removing the transform= attribute in the XML editor, if anyone ever needs this. Jon: >The transformations might be nice if we have a library of objects >and make instances of the object, and rather than changing the >original, transform the instance. That's what SVG use element is for. There is some support for it but it is incomplete. I'm seriously considering adding some simple UI for it in the next version because having a "Clone" and "Define symbol" command would be really cool and seems to not be excessively difficult to add. And yes, of course svg:use requires transform=, and it should still work in both modes - the "optimize" mode would just not optimize an svg:use object, leaving its transform= in place. >saving each transformation and having a dialogue/palette with >transformations or all transoforms: shape scaling, rotating, >twisting, and so forth, would be useful, to go back in time to an >earlier state on a shape. Unfortunately no, transform= as currently implemented does not give you a "history" of transformaions. It's always a single matrix and you can just remove _all_ transformations if you remove it. SVG allows you to write each transformation as a separate command to this attribute, but I think Inkscape does not support this. Robert: >I actually have a need for both "transform = " and "apply >transform" (I see no need for "remove transform"). I would prefer >that when I transform an object, I get a "transform = " and then >have the ability to apply that transform. OK, you can just work in the "preserve" mode. >Lets say I want to draw a regular hexagon. I will draw 3 >identical lines, rotate one 60, another -60, then apply the >transformations. The endpoints of these paths will give me the >control points to draw the hexagon. >From this example, however, I don't see why you need preserving transformations - if you apply them at once! This means you just want the rotate command (in the Transformation dialog, I suppose) to work in the "optimize" mode, i.e. apply the transformations for you. Or am I missing something? >In inkscape, currently, I combine paths to apply a transformation. >I'd really like to see an apply transform button. It's not difficult to add, however I think the first priority is to make sure that _all_ transformation commands work correctly in both optimize and preserve modes. Bob: >But if we ever get into the DOM scripting part of the SVG spec, we >would likely want to keep the original object + each of its >transformations. Like, say an object is rotated by angle theta, >then translated to a point x,y. Say we want to to animate it by >changing theta, thus rotating it, but leaving the translation >alone. Sure, this is where the preserve mode will be used. When we have animation, it will be necessary indeed. Herve: >Well, in fact, i think that te transform= attribute dedicate to a >group object or an object (instead of directly transforming the >d=) may (my opinion) want to act like proto in vrml (3D xml) you >import a proto from another file and transform it : that way when >you change the original proto-file, all transformation will apply >to that imported-proto-file-object. that transform possibility may >add a 'abstrac-implemented-object-stuff' as 'new' in POO > >It is (i supposed) the way "use" should be implemented. Yes, when you reference an external object as in svg:use, you can't do without a transform=, and this cannot be optimized (see above). Groups however are another matter. Currently Inkscape always adds transform= to a group when you move it. I want it instead to write it to each group member recursively (in optimize mode only, of course). Any comments on this particular change? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] Proposal: Consider CVS Provider Change
by bulia byak 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

>I had an interesting experience trying to move a project off >sourceforge: they refused to take the project pages down. Maybe it's not so bad? Just schedule an automatic daily copy of your "real" CVS to the SF CVS, and you have a free backup copy... _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/features&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin…

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RE: F1 => Help ? [was RE: [Inkscape-devel] RE: couple of functionality tweaks]
by bulia byak 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

>Windows users associate F1 with Help >and reaching for the Function keys is somewhat awkward, so I'd expect we >will need to change the keybinding. Oh please no!!! It's the key I use very often. I'm so spoiled by it that now I press it all the time when in Xara (and curse when it gives me help :) I don't know why but it's very convenient, maybe even more convenient than space (for me). And yes, it's non-standard, but it's borrowed from CorelDraw, and therefore has at least some legacy behind it. I'm against changing it in the default keybindings. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] new preview?
by bulia byak 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

>the best I was able to do was to verify that Microsoft Visio 2000 uses > >Shift+Wheel for sideways >and >Ctrl+Wheel for Zoom > >which matches what I asked for the HIG to say >http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/draft_hig_new/input.html#mouse-… Great, I committed the change to match this. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Prep for releasing Inkscape 0.37
by Bryce Harrington 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

Sounds like it's time to start in on getting the Inkscape 0.37 release process underway. There's been a lot of great effort from many people going into this release, and we're all looking forward to delivering 0.37 to the community. I read over the latest version of the release notes yesterday and am amazed at how much has been acheved, well beyond the planned objectives. The steps we need to take to do this release are the same as before. 1. First, there are a couple last code cleanup tasks that remain: We need to remove the #if 0 code, and we need volunteers for that. We need to finalize the code style guidelines, which basically means getting concensus on keeping tabs or converting tabs into 4-spaces. 2. Next we will declare feature freeze. Anyone working on features right now will need to either get them in by then, or delay/disable them until after the release, or move the work onto a branch. In addition to removing high priority bugs we need to ensure we haven't lost features (like grid snapping). 3. Once the tarball release is cut, I would like to see us take an organized approach to creating and testing the binary packages, so that they are consistently named and of high quality. I'll try to draw up a plan for this for us. 4. Lastly is to get word out about this release. We have tasks identified in the roadmap for doing this. A suitable goal would be to match the Sodipodi 0.32 page view and download numbers. I think we can do it if we put some organized effort into it; we've got a good product and a lot of people will be thrilled to get word about it.

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'HACKING' file updated
by Bryce Harrington 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

I've rewritten the old (Sodipodi) HACKING file to make it shorter and to briefly outline our development philosophy for those wanting to get involved in the future. I've enclosed it below for review. Bryce Contributing to Inkscape ------------------------ Inkscape welcomes your contributions to help turn it into a fully SVG-compliant drawing program for the Open Source community. While many developers work on fixing bugs and creating new features, it is worth strong emphasis that even non-programmers can help make Inkscape more powerful and successful. You probably already have an idea of something you'd like to work on. If not, here are just a few ways you can help: * Pick a bug, fix it, and send in a patch * Choose a feature you want to see developed, and make it * If you speak a language in addition to English, work on your language's i18n file in the po/ directory * Find a new bug and report it * Help answer questions for new Inkscapers on Jabber, IRC or the mailing lists * Write an article advocating Inkscape * Author a HOWTO describing a trick or technique you've figured out CVS Access ========== We give CVS access out to people with proven interest in helping develop the codebase. Proving your interest is straightforward: Make two contributions and request access. Patch Decisions =============== Our motto for changes to the codebase is "Patch first, ask questions later". When someone has an idea, rather than endlessly debating it, we encourage folks to go ahead and code something up (even prototypish). This is then incorporated into the development branch of the code for folks to try out, poke and prod, and tinker with. We figure, the best way to see if an idea fits is to try it on for size. Coding Style ============ Please refer to the Coding Style Guidelines if you have specific questions on the style to use for code. If reading style guidelines doesn't interest you, just follow the general style of the surrounding code, so that it is at least consistent.

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] RE: couple of functionality tweaks
by bulia byak 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

> > Perhaps this is a misunderstanding: It should deselect any selected >nodes > > (they must become all gray), but not deselect the shape itself (why >would > > you need that in node edit?) If you need to edit nodes of another shape, > > however, you can click on it, and it will be selected instead (i.e. the >old > > shape's nodes will disappear, and the new shape will show its nodes, > > initially deselected (gray)). > > >The reason you need to be able to click on the canvas to not see the >nodes is if the shape you are editing has many nodes and it becomes hard >to see the original shape or curve or whatever. Trust me, it is really >helpful to be able to deselect quickly by clicking on nothing (aka, the >canvas). In node edit, you're supposed to work on nodes, so naturally it displays nodes for you. Just press f1 or f3 or space if you want to "hide" nodes. Or open a new view where you can switch (ctrl-tab) for a quick look without any noise - this way you won't even lose your selected nodes when you switch back. These and more are all natural ways to do what you want, while deselecting _object_ in _node_ edit does not seem quite legal to me. On the other hand, I might program it so that on the first click it deselects any nodes, and on the second click, deselects the shape (hiding its nodes). However I'm reluctant to do this because this may lead to occasional unintended deselections that may be quite annoying. Anyone else has an opinion? _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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