- Inkscape Docs - Inkscape Mailman

Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
by Jabier Arraiza 05 Jun '17

05 Jun '17

Celiac label On Mon, 2017-06-05 at 23:03 +0100, C R wrote: > Okay, finished an initial version of the cover for the beginners > guide. > Yes, it's all in Inkscape. :) > > Here's a png: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/h4n88xpnc6declz/inkscape_cover_beginner_man > ual.png?dl=0 > > Thoughts? > > On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Martin Owens <doctormo@...2...> > wrote: > > Can someone help Maren? > > > > I feel like a news article and a deviantArt post would be useful > > for > > drumming up volunteers. > > > > But also, for a project director when just getting started, it's > > useful > > to hand out jobs, so people know that they are needed and that they > > don't have to think too much about which of the jobs they should do > > while figuring out the software/editing platform. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Best Regards, Martin Owens > > > > On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 14:46 +0200, Maren Hachmann wrote: > > > CR, I have been translating (and fixing contents as I go) 1-2 > > > chapters > > > each day for the last 2.5 weeks and am more than halfway through > > > (35 > > > chapters done, 24 left to do). There wasn't anyone else to be > > > seen > > > around, after the first week, when one person translated a > > > chapter > > > (unfortunately they picked the only one that needs to be > > > rewritten > > > from > > > scratch, because Inkscape changed), and two people proofread a > > > couple > > > of > > > chapters (thank you!!!). Well, and a couple of days ago, someone > > > seems > > > to have accidentally wiped all the notes on the book, that were > > > supposed > > > to help get people started (or maybe it was a platform bug). > > > > > > I'd be glad to see some proofreading and styling/screenshooting > > > people > > > get on board, so we can continue seamlessly after I'm through > > > with > > > translating. > > > > > > I'm a bit disappointed about everyone being so engaged and vocal > > > about > > > helping/liking the action, and now me working on it alone for > 2 > > > weeks > > > already. > > > But that's normal, I guess - it was the reason why I haven't > > > started > > > this earlier, and I felt ready to take it on now, no matter what. > > > > > > Anyway, I'm going to continue to plow through, then translations > > > will > > > be > > > ready before the hackfest. In parallel, I'm going to be plowing > > > through > > > my new garden, and to help fix up someone else's house, so I > > > expect > > > to > > > not have time for much else. > > > > > > I'd be glad if someone could try and reengage people to help with > > > the > > > manual (preferably people who are able to work independently and > > > know > > > Inkscape inside out, or who concentrate on something they really > > > do > > > well, like fixing up language or styling). > > > > > > There are more than enough open tasks: > > > from CSS to cover design, to screenshooting, to consistency > > > checking > > > and > > > layouting, to improving on my more or less weird English, to > > > adding > > > missing content (or perhaps, translating, of course). > > > > > > And yet, when we do this, I think it's important to take care to > > > honor > > > the underlying 'Keep it simple and as short as possible' concept > > > of > > > the > > > book, which would make it possible for young teenagers to use it > > > to > > > get > > > started, without much theoretical ballast. > > > Elisa seems to have invested a *lot* of thought into how she > > > built up > > > the chapters and when to start teaching which concept. I suspect > > > her > > > concept stems from experience in teaching live Inkscape courses. > > > > > > Maren > > > > > > Am 04.06.2017 um 13:32 schrieb C R: > > > > > > > > I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that > > > > we're > > > > making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to > > > > do > > > > it. I > > > > plan on helping this area of the project much more after I > > > > handle > > > > the > > > > hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less > > > > complete > > > > manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call > > > > for > > > > help with it. > > > > > > > > If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go > > > > ahead, though. :) > > > > > > > > Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the > > > > project, > > > > brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for > > > > Inkscape > > > > project work. :) > > > > > > > > -C > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Friends, > > > > > As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the > > > > > upcoming > > > > > hackfest, I > > > > > suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short > > > > > item about the > > > > > recent new work on the new manual? > > > > > > > > > > I could do that, after I finish the hackfest > > > > > article. I'm > > > > > thinking > > > > > Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first > > > > > time around? > > > > > Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could > > > > > do it > > > > > myself, if > > > > > we decide to do it. > > > > > > > > > > I think it would help in community-building, to keep > > > > > the > > > > > wider > > > > > community up to date about these things. What do other > > > > > manual > > > > > workers and > > > > > Docs list subscribers think? > > > > > > > > > > All best, > > > > > brynn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ---- > > > > > --------------- > > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's > > > > > most > > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > > > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ---- > > > > ------------- > > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > > > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---- > > > ----------- > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Inkscape-docs mailing list > > > Inkscape-docs(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------- > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > _______________________________________________ > > Inkscape-devel mailing list > > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

1 0

Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work?
by brynn 04 Jun '17

04 Jun '17

Oh, well thanks for your kind words :-) It could be both an announcement and a call for more help. At least the translation part, I wonder if we could use more help? As I and I think others have said, this would be a great gateway project for bringing in new talent and having more active users. Although perhaps there's some reason that I don't see, not to bring in beginners to the development side, on this particular project? Thanks, brynn -----Original Message----- From: C R Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:32 AM To: brynn Cc: Inkscape-Docs ; Inkscape-Devel Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] News item about the new manual work? I'd say let's wait and do a progress report, so we can say that we're making progress on it, rather than just that we've decided to do it. I plan on helping this area of the project much more after I handle the hackfest swag. It would be better to have a more or less complete manual before we announce it to the public, unless it's a call for help with it. If it's a call for help with that area of the project, then go ahead, though. :) Thanks for the amazing amount of work you're doing for the project, brynn. It's definitely helping drive my own motivation for Inkscape project work. :) -C On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, brynn <brynn@...78...> wrote: > Hi Friends, > As I'm writing up a quick draft to announce the upcoming hackfest, I > suddenly wondered if it might be a good idea to write a short item about the > recent new work on the new manual? > > I could do that, after I finish the hackfest article. I'm thinking > Maren might be able to get all the details correct, the first time around? > Although I don't mean to volunteer her. As I said, I could do it myself, if > we decide to do it. > > I think it would help in community-building, to keep the wider > community up to date about these things. What do other manual workers and > Docs list subscribers think? > > All best, > brynn > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-devel mailing list > Inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel

1 0

Robert Sterbal's introduction
by Robert Sterbal 02 Jun '17

02 Jun '17

All, I've been using social media since the 1990s and hope to help this project reach out to users, particularly via Facebook Groups and Instagram. Please let me know who I need to contact in order to move forward. Thanks, Robert Sterbal robert@...169... 412-977-3526 call/text

2 3

Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-translator] Website: Download page updated
by Maren Hachmann 01 Jun '17

01 Jun '17

Hi Eduard, feel free to edit the page to make it look nicer :) (would be really kind if you could adapt the German version then, too) I'm keeping translators informed of updates (if the authors forget to do it themselves), and translating. Contents discussions are a subject for the docs mailing list, so I'm including them in my reply. Kind Regards, Maren Am 01.06.2017 um 21:14 schrieb Eduard Braun: > Am 01.06.2017 um 21:02 schrieb Maren Hachmann: >> Hi translators, >> >> hope you're having some nice sunny days, too :) >> >> Marc has updated the Download page at https://inkscape.org/en/download/ >> to be a bit clearer on the meaning of the icons, by adding some text >> below them. >> >> Maybe you can make some time this weekend to edit them in in your >> language? >> >> Thank you! >> >> Kind Regards, >> Maren > > Do we need the "For " and "..."? It looks a bit cluttered. > Also "... or get the code." gets wrapped in an ugly way (maybe just use > "Source code"?). > > Centering and bolding of those labels would probably improve clarity yet > another bit. > > Regards > Eduard >

1 0

[Manual] Terminology
by brynn 22 May '17

22 May '17

Hi Friends, I think Maren mentioned to Carl about terminology (in a different message) and I agree that one of the most important things we need to do, is use the same terminology throughout the manual. However, that said, I'm not sure what the best way to accomplish that would be. Actually I was going to propose some changes to some of the section and chapter titles, in this message. But now that I think about it, that might be putting the cart before the horse (as we say here, sometimes). Should we create a Glossary? I mean as part of the manual? Or should we create a glossary that we just use for our own reference, as we write? Maybe make it part of the wiki? The gitlab wiki? Once or twice I've had a thought about making a glossary for the website someday. But until the website contains more instructional info, it probably has no purpose yet. But what I mean is that creating a glossary, whether formally part of the manual, or just in the wiki, could also be used on the website someday. If not glossary, what are some other ways we could keep ourselves all on the same page regarding terminology? What about one person (or 2?) who primarily takes care of that? Other ideas? All best, brynn

5 6

Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Manual] Terminology
by brynn 22 May '17

22 May '17

Hi Marietta 0, Are you interested in helping? You'd be welcome to help in any way you choose. Start a glossary, translate, edit, there are several different kind of tasks to accomplish. If you're interested, let us know, and we can get you started. Or you probably saw Maren's intial post about this, so you can follow the info in that message, to get a Floss manual account and etc. Anyway, we'd be happy to welcome you aboard :-) All best, brynn -----Original Message----- From: Marietta Walker Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 5:02 PM To: brynn Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Manual] Terminology I think a glossary would be fantastic. It would be nice for everyone to be on the same page when you are tying to help each other. Just my two cents. Marietta 0 On 5/18/2017 1:55 PM, brynn wrote: > Hi Friends, > I think Maren mentioned to Carl about terminology (in a different > message) and I agree that one of the most important things we need to do, is > use > the same terminology throughout the manual. However, that said, I'm not sure > what the best way to accomplish that would be. > > Actually I was going to propose some changes to some of the section > and > chapter titles, in this message. But now that I think about it, that might be > putting the cart before the horse (as we say here, sometimes). > > Should we create a Glossary? I mean as part of the manual? Or > should > we create a glossary that we just use for our own reference, as we write? > Maybe > make it part of the wiki? The gitlab wiki? > > Once or twice I've had a thought about making a glossary for the > website > someday. But until the website contains more instructional info, it probably > has no purpose yet. But what I mean is that creating a glossary, whether > formally part of the manual, or just in the wiki, could also be used on the > website someday. > > If not glossary, what are some other ways we could keep ourselves all > on > the same page regarding terminology? What about one person (or 2?) who > primarily takes care of that? Other ideas? > > All best, > brynn > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-docs mailing list > Inkscape-docs(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-docs

1 0

[Manual] Organization of the new manual
by brynn 22 May '17

22 May '17

Hi Friends, First I just want to thank Maren again, for getting this manual set up, so that we can move forward with translating and editing. 3 Cheers!!! During our early discussions, I had mentioned, and she agreed, that since the Docs list covers kind of a lot of territory (website, new manual, various other documentation) we might want to identify discussions pertaining to the manual by something in the title of message. That's why I put [Manual] at the beginning of the title of this message. I'm not sure if it should maybe go at the end of the title? Or maybe should be [Man]? My main reason for this message, is because I want to start a discussion about overall organization of the chapters. To me, it makes sense to get that ironed out in the beginning. Because as it grows, it could become harder and harder to change how it's organized. (Note that in this message I'm more describing the chapter and section titles, because right after this, I want to send another message on the subject of possibly improving section and chapter titles. Eventually, they'll come together, but for getting everyone's ideas out, it's probably better to have separate threads.) So here are some thoughts I'm having on organization. If everyone else wants to wait, that's fine too. Just speak up :-) To me, the Selection tool is a global tool and does not belong under Geometric Shapes. That implies either it can only be used with the shape tools, or used best with them. And that's not the case at all, in my view. I'm thinking we need a new major section, that would go between Introduction and Geometric Shapes. Maybe it would be called something like The Basics or Getting Started? The purpose of it would be to quickly make newbies productive, while linking to the relevant parts of the manual, at each step. Then the rest of the manual would by and large be about the same (except I'll probably suggest a different order for some of chapters later). This could really almost be in the form of a tutorial, although not necessarily. This section I'm proposing would include the following -- the current Interface chapter -- the current Managing the Workspace chapter(which appears to be about Document Properties dialog) -- the current Selection tool -- the current Fill and Stroke dialog -- a new chapter which explains the difference between raster and vector (unless this already exists and I haven't found it yet?) -- current Importing raster images -- current exporting PNG -- current Copying/duplicating -- current Saving your work (these last 3 are currently way down the list, in advanced section) (see discussion below) -- a new chapter introducing transparency, but linking to deeper applications in Fill/Color and/or Advanced sections -- current Align and Distrib from Path section to here -- maybe Transform dialog? (not sure if currently exists) (not in that order - we can discuss the order later, if everyone agrees to this new section) I'm having a hesitation about including the Fill and Stroke dialog in this section. Most of it is about color and transparency. But because of the Stroke Style tab, it becomes more of a global tool. I generally have it open always. Other comments? The reason I would include Importing here, is because many newbies start out with Inkscape by needing to trace a raster image (auto-trace or manual). I tend to think of importing as part of setting up my document. Any other thoughts? To me, you can't get more global than copying/duplicating (except maybe selection tool). For Saving Your Work, it just doesn't make sense (to me) to have that in advanced section. I realize for many formats, it is advanced material. But I'm thinking -- have a simple explanation in this new section, but then have links to the more advanced info, which most newbies won't need, just to get started. For the section on Paths, I would suggest moving Strokes, Markers, and Custom Markers, out of the Fill/Colors section, into Paths section. That seems obvious to me, but I'd be interested to hear reasons for keeping them with Fill/Color. Ordering of fill/stroke/marker here too. Is the Transform dialog covered anywhere? I don't see it by browsing the chapters, but maybe is there somewhere? If not, I would put either in the Geometric Shapes section, or maybe even the new section. After some discussion, we can propose a good order for the chapters. Of course, I can only read those which have been translated. So maybe the current order will make more sense when I can read them. But for now, what do you all think about the idea of a new section? All best, brynn

2 3

howdy Inkscape manual writers
by Carl Symons 18 May '17

18 May '17

My name is Carl Symons from US-Washington State, Bellingham. Bellingham is th home of linuxfestnorthwest.org. For several years, I was one of the organizers and did a lot of pieces with Inkscape. On the main page, you can see the iconic LFNW Totem. Originally created in hardcopy with poster paint. I converted it to Inkscape SVG, used for many things including the large version seen on www.linuxfestnorthwest.org/2017/sponsors/world-famous-lfnw-raffle. While you're there, have a look at the World Famous Raffle sign thaht I also also created in Inkscape. Despite creating these, it's easy to imagine what Inkscape is like for someone just getting started...I'm not very skilled, but I have fun. For several years, worked on KDE news (dot.kde.org), writing (dot.kde.org/2012/10/15/plasma-active-3-improves-performance-brings-new-apps) and editing almost every piece for a couple of years (2010 - 2012) I'll assist with editing and proofreading as needed. Carl

2 3

zip versions of 0.48 not available
by brynn 17 May '17

17 May '17

Hi Friends, Just trying to get a version of 0.48 for testing (helping someone in a forum) and for both zip and 7z, it says Download Failed WARNING! The download for this isn't working or isn't set up right. Is this a problem? Or is there somewhere else where we can get older versions? Thanks, brynn

3 7

Re: [Inkscape-docs] [Inkscape-devel] Any chance we can make some docs material? (targeting the moon)
by Maren Hachmann 17 May '17

17 May '17

Hi, sorry for the delay. I've been trying things out a bit, and I feel I haven't seen enough yet, but I won't have time tomorrow, so posting anyway now. So, it seems that what we still need for a manual (any kind) is a platform to create it (not only write, but also output to different formats). I have had a chance to look at 3 different platforms on my list, and I'm trying to outline the pros and cons, as I perceive them, please add yours to the list. There are many more platforms in existance (see also: https://github.com/PharkMillups/beautiful-docs#generating-docs), and if anyone here has some experience with them, please add. ************* - Gitlab Wiki + X, as suggested by Martin. WHAT: An online Wiki on gitlab with a source code editor, associated with a gitlab project. PROS: - custom-made to suit the project's individual needs (no specifics yet) - Preview functionality CONS: - only (limited set of) Markdown, RDoc or AsciiDoc - limited formatting options, formatting not so much about 'roles' of formatted text, but more about 'looks' - the backend isn't written yet - no option for branches via interface (so we could start writing for trunk, and continue fixing for stable) - no direct translation support - support for the backend depends upon a single individual, no user community - no WYSIWYG editor - no GUI access to git repo, for managing where to put uploaded files etc. - no GUI for undoing a change (like in a 'normal' Wiki), or looking at a diff EXAMPLE (frontend): https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape-web/wikis/home ************* - Gitlab Editor + Sphinx / readthedocs: WHAT: A git repository with an online source code editor and documentation update on readthedocs.org on save (i.e. commit). PROS: - available quickly (didn't know how it works exactly, but got it all up and running with test content within an evening) - uses git and reStructured Text - allows to have branches, so devel version features can be documented when they are coded - supports translations (not entirely sure how, though, haven't tested it yet, wanted to send this email instead. E.g. Django docs are translated. Fallback to English if no translation of a document. I think they use different branches.) - free theming, separately for each output format - free hosting, can also use our own domain name with readthedocs.org, e.g. docs.inkscape.org - after installing some programs, tool chain runs locally - preview via gitlab editor or local editor - same toolchain can be used for developer documentation (includes code documentation from docstrings) - extensible via plugins (haven't had a chance to take a closer look yet or test any) - I think it's possible to add a 'edit this page on gitlab' link to each page, to get new contributors, even when using readthedocs.org (not tested, but read that others did similar things) - extremely wide range of export formats via plugins - infinite hierarchy nesting - syntax highlighting (e.g. for command line usage instructions, or extension writers) - video embedding (not tested) CONS: - learning curve for admin (theming, plugins,...) - learning curve for editors (syntax, workflow) - no WYSIWYG editor, only preview (incomplete, because doesn't support all sphinx stuff) EXAMPLE: - repository: https://gitlab.com/Moini/inkscape-extensions-multi-bool/tree/master/docs - rendered documentation: http://inkscape-multi-bool-extension.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html ************* - Booktype: WHAT: A web portal for creating books, hosted by friends of the Inkscape project. PROS: - available right now, no further setup required - best interface by far, easy and intuitive to use - team functions, user roles, chat - prevents concurrent editing - wide range of export and import formats - support for themes/settings for specific export formats (e.g. different font sizes etc.) - free hosting and maintenance via flossmanuals(fr) - community of experienced documentors CONS: - confinement to django database for version control, more difficult to get data out of it again for editing - no direct translation support (make a copy of the book, copy changes over after doing a comparison in the history) - limited versioning support (only the latest one can be edited) - we'd need to ask someone to add CC-By-SA licence (currently, the options I got were CC-By, GPL. I guess this would be quick and easy to solve.) EXAMPLE (rendered documentation): https://www.flossmanualsfr.net/initiation-inkscape/ ************* All of them would be FLOSS, have support for internal linking, allow to insert images and allow editing via browser. ************* I wish it were possible to combine the ease of use of the booktype frontend with the portability, branch support, sustainability and versatility of the gitlab/sphinx/readthedocs backend... (In German that's called the 'eierlegende Wollmilchsau' - egg-laying wool- and milk-giving pig...) For the sphinx option, I believe I'd be able to take on the first setup and some of the tasks that come with customization and extending, as well as basic maintenance. For Booktype, anyone of the documentation writers could do that easily. Regards, Maren

4 16