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Re: [Inkscape-devel] some questions/suggestions
by bulia byak 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

>On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 16:35, bulia byak wrote: > > Still better and more generic is a clones mechanism where you define >some > > objects as produced from other objects by applying some transformations. >You > > cannot edit the clones directly, but only by editing the original or the > > cloning rule. This is something I've been dreeming about for long. > >This is already provided by SVG's <use>, and supported -- we just need a >UI to create them. Wonderful. I started to think about the UI. Not the near-term goal, but something very worth working towards to. > > Another thing we're missing is blends. Very useful not only per se, but >for > > creating e.g. regular grids, etc. > >Could you elaborate? When I need a grid, the most convenient way to do it in Xara is to duplicate a line, move it away, and blend with the original. This is similar to the clones idea above, because the intermediate steps of the blend are not objects in their own right - their number and position is entirely dependent on the blend settings and the position of the two blended objects, so it is very convenient to make the grid sparser or denser etc. by simply moving one of them. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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save changes
by bulia byak 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

I added statusbar flash to sp_file_save_document saying "Document saved." However I see no way to find out whether the save was actually successful - of course this needs to be displayed only on success. But sp_module_system_save returns nothing useful. Is this by design? In fact it does have a return with value, even though it is declared as void. While at it, I added a check of sodipodi:modified so that unchanged document is not saved. I wonder why this was not done before - are there any pending problems with sodipodi:modified? It works nice in my testing so far. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoi…

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] Inkscape Status 2003-12-15
by bulia byak 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

>Hours since last ChangeLog mod: 90 6 2 21 Perhaps the decrease in this parameter is partially due to not everyone logging their changes. For example I never see entries by Jon Cruz. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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Inkscape Status 2003-12-15
by Bryce Harrington 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

Project Status Monday, December 15, 2003 We have achieved the 0.36 release. A handful of users have expressed positive feedback on the work done. Judging from the quantity of downloads, we're serving a userbase on the order of 1500 people. We've unfrozen the codebase and already laid into some impressive new features for the next release including support for boolean operations, a feature long requested by users. A new color picker system is also in place. Also, as planned, we've committed to C++ by changing the build system to use g++ instead of gcc and by renaming all of the files from .c to .cpp. Statistics Nov 02 Nov 15 Nov 29 Dec 15 ========== ====== ====== ====== ====== Lifetime Rank on SourceForge: 6103 4391 3676 2452 (56.2%) (68.5%) (73.6%) (82.4%) Max Week's Rank on SourceForge: 6023 62 37 27 (56.8%) (99.6%) (99.8%) (99.8%) Total SF Page Views 200 * 50,000 86,000 Total SF Downloads 0 * 1700 3640 Total Freshmeat URL Hits 0 746 1121 2237 Total Freshmeat Subscriptions 0 16 19 28 Lines of Code in src/: 115,754 115,901 116,970 132,134 Code lines 100,549 Comment line 11,591 Blank 20,559 Lines of Docs in doc/: 1,135 1,135 2,100 2,225 Lines of content in website: 74 1,173 1,624 2,090 Size of the Inkscape wiki: 0 3,700 5,737 7,385 Hours since last ChangeLog mod: 90 6 2 21 Bugs open/total: 0/0 9/15 40/51 67/111 Features open/total: 0/0 18/18 23/24 40/45 Patches open/total: 0/0 1/ 6 5/20 6/25 CVS Commits (as per inkscape-cvs): 148 481 963 * Inkscape-devel membership: 4 49 61 64 Inkscape-announce membership: 0 9 14 16 * - Statistics unavailable

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] some questions/suggestions
by bulia byak 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

>One option would be to have a 'duplicate/replicate' dialog that could be >popped up with some hotkey. Then in this just ask for offsets & count then >repeat away Still better and more generic is a clones mechanism where you define some objects as produced from other objects by applying some transformations. You cannot edit the clones directly, but only by editing the original or the cloning rule. This is something I've been dreeming about for long. Another thing we're missing is blends. Very useful not only per se, but for creating e.g. regular grids, etc. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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new statusbar API
by bulia byak 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

There are new functions for statusbar display. Please use them where appropriate to make statusbar helpful and informative: void sp_view_set_statusf (SPView *view, const gchar *format, ...); Sets statusbar message permanently. The format string and the rest of arguments are as in printf(). Not to be used normally, because the message never disappears unless replaced by another message. In the majority of situations, one of the _flash or _error functions should be used instead. void sp_view_clear_status (SPView *view); Clears statusbar message permanently. Not to be used normally. In the majority of situations, one of the _flash or _error functions should be used instead. void sp_view_set_statusf_flash (SPView *view, const gchar *format, ...); Displays message temporarily for 1 second; when the message disappears, the one that was in the statusbar before it is restored. Use this function for short helpful hints or explanations of non-trivial actions. Examples: "No-break space" when you press ctrl-space in text object; "Closing path" when hitting the anchor in freehand; "Selection cancelled" when pressing Esc cancelled rubberband selection. void sp_view_set_statusf_error (SPView *view, const gchar *format, ...); Displays message temporarily for 5 seconds; when the message disappears, the one that was in the statusbar before it is restored. Use this function for most non-fatal error messages (unless they are so important as to warrant a modal messagebox). Examples: "To join, you must have two endnodes selected" when you try to join nodes that are not exactly two endpoints; "To subtract, you must have two objects selected" for the boolean difference operation. The only potential difficulty with these functions is figuring out the SPView. How you do this depends on what you have at hand when you call one of these functions. Examples: SPEventContext *ec; sp_view_set_statusf_flash (SP_VIEW(ec->desktop), format, ...); SPSelection *sel; sp_view_set_statusf_flash (SP_VIEW(sel->desktop), format, ...); SPNodePath *nodepath; sp_view_set_statusf_flash (SP_VIEW(nodepath->desktop), format, ...); _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

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Re: [Inkscape-devel] New guide prototype
by Michael Wybrow 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Nathan Hurst wrote: > > Please run it and tell us if the behaviour feels right - it is easier > to try variations whilst the code is python, rather than C++ (although > it is easier to know whether the behaviour feels right once we > implement it in Inkscape proper) If you are labelling these guidelines as `placement aids' then I think the behaviour feels wrong in that they have too much power. Namely the power to resize objects that are attached to them, which moves beyond `placement.' This is a really minor criticism and I see the current behaviour being very useful for doing things like resizing multiple shapes togther. My suggestion would be for you guys to (in the next prototype iteration) offer at least a couple of shapes in the example window. These types of guidelines are most useful for aligning shapes, and without a couple of shapes it is hard to simulate some of the situations that will likely arise in true editing. Thus, this may enable you to get some more useful feedback. > Feel free to ask questions about our intentions, and suggest > extensions that would be helpful. Clearly the prototype is but a > taste of what can be done with this new approach (We have several > whiteboards worth of ideas to implement :), but it is important to > work out the basic interface now. > > In particular, what do people think about the two tools behaviour? I personally found the two tools to be confusing and subtle in their differences. I do understand the differences between them and suspect that the problem my lie in the way they're described (the icons, tooltips and cursors used). The second tool mode is really "Manipulate control points while keeping attached control points constrained (where possible)." > Should this be folded into a modifier key on the selection tool? Yes, but there needs to be a good visual indicator when this modifier is active, i.e. moving over the control points results in two different cursors, depending on the modifier state. Preferably the user should be able to tell what will happen when they drag the control point before they actually begin moving it. > Is the breaking of constraint behaviour (which control point > disconnects when you move something) reasonable, or can you suggest a > better heuristic? (Currently the rule that is broken is chosen > arbitrarily, perhaps it would be better to break the oldest created > relationship, or perhaps the least recently moved?) This is where you start to get into problems. Breaking things arbitrarily is very bad and will frustrate users, *unless* they can clearly determine the heuristic and predict its results. Additionally, any behaviour that is inconsistent from use to use is terrible from a usability perspective. It may be better to break the oldest created relationship, but if this is not immediately obvious to the user (as the cause of the breakage) then this is just as bad as the current situation. `Least recently moved' suffers a similar problem in that different constraints get broken depending on the order of previous actions. This is also bad because the user is probably likely to think in terms of tasks they are completing and may use two different orders of steps to complete the task without realising themselves, each time leading to a different constraint breakage. Also, what if the diagram has just been opened, how is the decision made then? Perhaps you should be thinking about not breaking the guideline constraint, i.e. have the control point do nothing by instead breaking the mouse constraint. I notice this is what happens if the center and left-middle points are each attached to a seperate vertical guideline and you try and drag the right-top control point. Though there ought to be some feedback to the user here explaining why the control point doesn't have any effect (in one direction) when dragged. I'm not sure there is a `perfect' solution to this question. But I'll have a bit more of a think about desirable behaviours. > What do people think of the indicators for how control points are > connected to guide lines and guide points? Suggestions? This works for me on one level--I like the way they look when connected. I don't like the way they lose the look of control points. After manipulating them further it is clear they are still control points, though when it first occurs you feel like you've lost the `handle.' My feel is it is a little unnatural to click on and manipulate the `railway tracks' when wanting to break a control point from a guideline. I also don't quite understand how this is going to work in Inkscape itself either. As Bulia pointed out, the control points in Inkscape are away from the edges of shapes. Also, I notice when a selection contains multiple shapes then these control points represent the edges of the bounding box of the selection. It doesn't make sense for these control points to be attached to guidelines. It needs to somehow be shown that the control point of the shape sharing that edge of the bounding box has become attached. Given this behaviour, you may need to have a seperate second tool to deal with objects themselves rather than the bounding box of the selection. In any case, I suggest there also needs to be some discussion about how exactly these tools will fit into general Inkscape editing. I know that you were looking mainly for critism of the model rather than implementation details, but such things may need to be considered by your model. Cheers, Michael

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RE: [Inkscape-devel] some questions/suggestions
by bulia byak 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

>duplicate should keep the copy in the same location, and paste should >follow the mouse, but possibly should be in the same place if the mouse >hasn't moved yet... I think the last part (watching if the mouse has moved) is too difficult to implement, enough to have a separate "paste to original location" command >It would be nice to get a visual identification on the cloning of an >object though, with the mouse pointer changing and/or the statusbar >changing when a hotkey is depressed to do cookiecutter duplication of an >object. Cloning (as I see it) requres quite a lot of UI changes. I did not think about them in detail yet. >I know there is the weird spacebar super-clone that is somewhat >similar. That is already implemented, but not in documentation very >prominently. It's not cloning, just copying, the copies have no connection to the original (what I had in mind was something different) >A couple of other things: It would be good to fix the menu item "Stoke >to Path" to say "Stroke to Path" (TYPO). Thanks, fixed >I think a good feature would be >to add more hotkeys while editing and dragging objects. A good feature >of illustration programs is to hold the alt key and get to drag a new >copy and leave the old one behind. Space does that to some extent, although admittedly less convenient >And better still, is if you hold the >shift key down and you can constrain the new copy to 90 deg. angles (or >whatever is the pref). Not only for copy - dragging anyting with ctrl should restrict to hor/vert, this is in todo already _________________________________________________________________ Cell phone �switch� rules are taking effect � find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx

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gimp2svg
by Bryce Harrington 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

A program referred to on the Sodipodi tools site, 'gimp2sodi', provides some scripts to convert raster images into vector, etc. I've added this to the Inkscape experimental module, in hopes one day it can be incorporated as a module to allow importing Gimp files into Inkscape. Bryce

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RE: text inset
by bulia byak 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

>ok, fixed. a few notes: >- the text was insetting correctly on my computer, >because it was using another font; the reason the >shape disappeared turned out to be the orientation of >glyphs path in conjunction with winding fill rule. Thanks! >- the result is filled with black because that's the >value it gets when asking for the stroke attribute in >the style (see xml tree), so it may be the color >handling bug you refered to in a previous bug report Yes, I think so. Jon, it's http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=859568&group_id=93… which you said is yours. Do you have any progress with it? It's really getting in our way :) Now there are two more problems. Take the bug-textinset again and: - set its outline to 1 pt, press ctrl-) three times. It grows OK, but on fourth and subsequent outsets, nothing happens - it stops to grow. - now remove the stroke - you'll notice areas where the shape bacame really weird, e.g. under the top left serif of "w". - now reload the file and repeat, this time with a 0.5 pt stroke. Now it stops after 4 applications of outset, and there are less broken areas (but the "r" is still somewhat broken). So: why does it stop growing, and can you do anything about the broken contours? (sorry about the nitpicking, but it's a very very useful feature, and I want it to work as perfectly as possible) _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.ms…

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