Re: [Inkscape-user] [Inkscape-devel] the Scale setting and Display units
by brynn
Sorry I was unavailable for all this discussion the last couple of days. (just a
bit out of sorts)
I completely understand that everyone has different preferences for whatever
project they use Inkscape to accomplish. I would say that as far as Inkscape is
concerned, none should be considered better or more preferred than the other.
I think it would be a mistake to force one or more user groups to always change
their docs, or make their own special templates, just so that one or more other
user groups can have convenience. Especially with this new system which is so
confusing for many users. Inkscape should be made usable, equally as possible,
for all user groups.
The bottom line (at least for me) is that there is no way to satisfy everyones
needs at the same time. What is needed is a simple way for users to choose and
set their desired units, no matter which kind of document or template they want.
Before 0.92, it was very, very simple, and easy to understand and easy to use.
Now, it is not.
If there is some reason related to Inkscape's being able to function at all,
where mm Must be the default units, then please make Inkscape do all the work,
so that the user only has to click once to change their units (as before).
(Make Scaling silent.)
However, I think it would be better to go back to the traditional system of px
for the user units, where if a user wants to change their units, they just have
to click once.
> So
it would be very nice to have px as the default template and let our users
change units in the display as desired without any concerns regarding scale.
Ditto!
As a footnote, this is one of the many issues we are seeing with users not
understanding the scale (it's an old topic where a new message was posted,
starting here) http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17182#p101060
Here, it seems setting the wrong scale is exaggerating the expected deformations
of paths when using offsets.
All best,
brynn
PS - I made the wishlist report, for what it's worth:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1719162
-----Original Message-----
From: TylerDurden
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 9:46 PM
To: inkscape-devel(a)lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-devel] [Inkscape-user] the Scale setting and Display
units
>>[Luca] I ask again: is this just a template issue? <<
Yes, I also think so.
I currently instruct all my Inkscape students at the local makerspace to
create a custom default template with units=px and scale=1.
Slide from the class:
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8ydap6q59dtne1i/Inkscape_Class_101-Default.png
At the makerspace we regularly use px, imperial and metric; and output from
Inkscape for print, CNC, laser, game design, web, CAD, and on, and on... So
it would be very nice to have px as the default template and let our users
change units in the display as desired without any concerns regarding scale.
Thanks,
TD
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5 years, 6 months
Inkscape 0.92.2 not building
by Alice Wonder
I hope this isn't better suited for the devel list, but I'm not an
Inkscape developer.
Trying to build Inkscape 0.92.2 and it seems to not like ImageMagick
7.0.7 patch 4 (the current)
The build error:
make[2]: ***
[src/CMakeFiles/inkscape_base.dir/extension/internal/bitmap/channel.cpp.o]
Error 1
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
/builddir/build/BUILD/inkscape-0.92.2/src/extension/internal/bitmap/crop.cpp:
In member function 'virtual void
Inkscape::Extension::Internal::Bitmap::Crop::applyEffect(Magick::Image*)':
/builddir/build/BUILD/inkscape-0.92.2/src/extension/internal/bitmap/crop.cpp:27:78:
error: no matching function for call to
'Magick::Geometry::Geometry(int&, int&, int&, int&, bool, bool)'
image->crop(Magick::Geometry(width, height, _left, _top,
false, false));
^
/builddir/build/BUILD/inkscape-0.92.2/src/extension/internal/bitmap/crop.cpp:27:78:
note: candidates are:
In file included from /usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Drawable.h:28:0,
from /usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Image.h:17,
from /usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++.h:12,
from
/builddir/build/BUILD/inkscape-0.92.2/src/extension/internal/bitmap/crop.cpp:15:
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:119:5: note:
Magick::Geometry::Geometry(const RectangleInfo&)
Geometry(const MagickCore::RectangleInfo &rectangle_);
^
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:119:5: note: candidate
expects 1 argument, 6 provided
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:52:5: note:
Magick::Geometry::Geometry(size_t, size_t, ssize_t, ssize_t)
Geometry(size_t width_,size_t height_,::ssize_t xOff_=0,
^
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:52:5: note: candidate
expects 4 arguments, 6 provided
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:49:5: note:
Magick::Geometry::Geometry(const string&)
Geometry(const std::string &geometry_);
^
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:49:5: note: candidate
expects 1 argument, 6 provided
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:46:5: note:
Magick::Geometry::Geometry(const Magick::Geometry&)
Geometry(const Geometry &geometry_);
^
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:46:5: note: candidate
expects 1 argument, 6 provided
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:43:5: note:
Magick::Geometry::Geometry(const char*)
Geometry(const char *geometry_);
^
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:43:5: note: candidate
expects 1 argument, 6 provided
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:40:5: note:
Magick::Geometry::Geometry()
Geometry();
^
/usr/include/ImageMagick-7/Magick++/Geometry.h:40:5: note: candidate
expects 0 arguments, 6 provided
make[2]: ***
[src/CMakeFiles/inkscape_base.dir/extension/internal/bitmap/crop.cpp.o]
Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/builddir/build/BUILD/inkscape-0.92.2'
make[1]: *** [src/CMakeFiles/inkscape_base.dir/all] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory `/builddir/build/BUILD/inkscape-0.92.2'
make: *** [all] Error 2
Any ideas?
5 years, 6 months
the Scale setting and Display units
by brynn
Hi Friends,
Sending up a signal flare from the not-so-technially-inclined user
community. Please either explain the Scale setting and how users can easily
change the Display units; or fix the UX so we can use it.
Thank you so very much,
brynn
5 years, 6 months
Re: [Inkscape-user] [Inkscape-docs] UX team?
by brynn
Oh! (Copying over to dev and user lists.) There are so very many people
interested in working on the UX (I seem to recall several people had been
signed up -- it's hard to believe not one of them would volunteer for this
simple task.
If "the team's business" means writing the intro, Team Details and Charter, I
can do that. What other business might there be? (Even though I'm leading the
Moderators Team, I suspect the "business" is probably different.)
If it requires a lot of work, let's put it up on the To-Do List page, to try to
recruit someone. But what kind of business is it?
Thanks,
brynn
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Owens
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:25 AM
To: brynn ; Inkscape-Docs
Subject: Re: [Inkscape-docs] UX team?
On Wed, 2017-09-20 at 06:42 -0600, brynn wrote:
> Hi Friends,
> I just noticed there is no UX team showing on the Teams page
> (https://inkscape.org/en/teams/). I could have sworn I saw one
> there, not too
> long ago (couple of months maybe). I think it had several members.
>
> What happened with that?
The UI team is currently hidden as it's TODO introduction and lack of
leadership made it hard to justify keeping it visible.
So what it needs is someone with a passion, preferably a UX person, who
can say that even if it's just a team of one, that they will handle the
team's business.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
5 years, 6 months
Fwd: open-draw-community.de
by Arlo Barnes
I had the notion of resurrecting it but was not able to invest as much
attention as I had anticipated to get PHPbb up and running. The domain name
will expire October 12*th*, so I can transfer to anyone willing to pay for
hosting or at least just renewal to prevent it turning to spam. I am using
Register4Less for both the domain and hosting and have a referral code that
I think will reduce the cost of transfer. Of course if one wants to host
with Gandi or wherever that is fine too (just not GoDaddy! :P).
Thanks,
—Arlo James Barnes
5 years, 6 months
Re: [Inkscape-user] the Scale setting and Display units
by Tyler Durden
Greetings all,
A universal default.svg with units px and scale=1 provides a simple single
solution to a number of issues:
- Resolves broken extensions and features like symbols and outset/inset,
etc.
- No need for users to consider scale, they just set the display units and
work.
- No need to tailor localizations with in/96, mm/3.77953.
- Fewer bug reports for scale and localization issues.
- Neophytes are less likely to abandon Inkscape as confusing or complicated.
That's a lot of benefit, for what could be relatively little effort.
Like with any graphics or CAD application, users should be familiar with
setting document units when starting to work. This is the most basic of
best-practices.
Even making a template is not difficult, but a button/tool to save the
current document as a template would be very handy.
Regards,
TD
5 years, 6 months
Re: [Inkscape-user] [Inkscape-devel] the Scale setting and Display units
by Ryan Gorley
Since it's now America first maybe we should use 8.5 inches by 11 inches as
the default. :P
Sarcasm aside, I do find it mildly annoying to have to go into the Document
Properties every time I load an instance of Inkscape to change it (almost
always to pixels). I know this can be changed in the config directory, but
being able to change the default page size and units in the GUI seems like
a reasonable feature. Alternatively (or additionally) presenting the
Document Properties dialog on startup is the way many graphics applications
handle this. I doubt we'll find any size/unit combo that makes everyone
happy.
*Ryan Gorley*
Managing Partner | Dijt <https://dijt.co>
On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Eduard Braun <eduard.braun2@...26...> wrote:
> Am 21.09.2017 um 13:14 schrieb LucaDC:
>
>> Eduard Braun wrote
>>
>>> Hehe, we're back to the question "what is one pixel" and as far as
>>> Inkscape (since 0.92) is concerned 1 px is 1/96 inch, so it is a real
>>> world size and this pixel size in fact *is* the standard pixel size
>>> according to CSS2. Y'all should really read Mc's posts on units. ;-).
>>>
>> If this sentence was as strong as it tries to appear, the transition from
>> 90
>> dpi to 96 dpi would have been a lot less painful. Oh, sorry, I was wrong:
>> the transition wouldn't even had been necessary!
>>
>> "Pixel" is not listed in The International System of Units (SI), where mm
>> is
>> (well, m of which it's a power:
>> http://www.bipm.org/en/measurement-units/base-units.html). So you can't
>> say
>> that the definitions of pixel and mm have comparable weights and scopes.
>> 1 mm is 1 mm. Full stop.
>> I agree that today a pixel can be related to a real world size unit (1/96
>> of
>> an Inch), but yesterday it wasn't so who can guarantee that tomorrow it
>> will
>> still be?
>> SI units are there not to suffer of this uncertainty so that's what I call
>> _real_world_units_, not something that can be changed to fit the needs of
>> a
>> so quickly evolving technology.
>>
> I don't disagree with you, a meter (why are we using mm? ;-) ) is
> certainly a better measure of length than the pixel. However - while I'm an
> advocate of SI myself - it's certainly not the only measure and needs are
> different. Just because *you* prefer the meter does not mean other people
> work the same way. You only want to offer SI units? Great! Let's drop
> inches and point, too! A user wants to design a screenshot for their full
> HD screen? Let's tell them to make their document 1920x1080 mm² because "1
> mm will always be 1 mm" (no wait... because the px is flawed they're
> probably out of luck anyway - or should they measure their screen with a
> ruler... I'm confused ;-) )
> Maybe you're right and with high DPI screens becoming more and more
> popular it's time to say goodbye to pixel units for most content. But for
> now they still have their uses and it's not for us to decide! If an
> application complicates certain usage scenarios on purpose it's bound to
> upset some people and leaves a bad impression behind. I don't want that.
>
> At the very least I think we need a possibility to select the default
> template via UI (I even opened a bug about that some time ago:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1673608) so users can make a
> choice on their own without too much hassle.
>
> Eduard Braun wrote
>>
>>> personally I'd feeld a lot safer to use a px-based (unscaled) SVG as a
>>> base for production than to rely on some SVG with millimeters as user
>>> units that Inkscape currently implements via a viewBox scaling of the
>>> whole SVG (which broke a lot of our export extensions and might just as
>>> well confuse import filters in other software).
>>>
>> If I get this sentence right, it makes me feel you've not completely
>> understood how a (current) mm document is made. What could be
>> misunderstood
>> in a document where mm is the unit, the page is 297x210 and you have an
>> object with dimensions 10x10? Actually I can't see any "viewBox scaling of
>> the whole SVG" here, unless that's how you call the viewBox function
>> itself.
>> Perhaps you're making a bit of confusion between px as 1/96 of an inch (as
>> we've been talking up to now) and px as user-unit (as per SVG
>> specifications): a user-unit is not (necessarily) 1/96 of an Inch, and
>> that's what the viewBox is for: nothing strange or outside SVG
>> specifications here so broken extensions or import filters are simply
>> buggy.
>> And as far as Inkscape (since 0.92) is concerned 1 px (in the SVG sense,
>> i.e. user-unit) is not always 1/90 or 1/96 inch anymore. At last.
>>
> You don't have to lecture me, I'm quite familiar with what we do
> internally.
>
> The problem is not so much the correctness of the SVG (I don't argue with
> that) but what other software makes of it. And while you're absolutely
> right that software not properly handling the viewBox attribute should be
> considered broken, it does not help our users. Do you want to tell them
> "hey, Inkscape is doing everything right, here, look in the cryptic
> specification users should never have to care about and see for yourself
> we're not to blame?" That won't help them at all...
>
> Also the length of this thread shows how "good a job" we're doing at
> hiding all those internals from the user and giving them something they can
> easily work with, regardless of their specific application.
>
> Regards,
> Eduard
>
>
> Luca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://inkscape.13.x6.nabble.com/Inkscape-Dev-f2781808.html
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------------
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
>>
>
>
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>
5 years, 6 months
Re: [Inkscape-user] the Scale setting and Display units
by Tyler Durden
Greetings.
A suggestion from the peanut gallery...
1) All future releases have default.svg with the display units set for px,
scale= 1uu/px
2) Move the scale controls to another tab in the Document Properties panel,
with language to describe function.
3) Expose the "Set page to drawing or selection" toolset (which is often
overlooked by new and veteran users) on the Page tab of the Document
properties panel.
Mockup of modified Document properties panel:
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/zfz9yetclfy1m21/mockup1.png
(also attached in case this board allows)
The above changes should alleviate most of the confusion and retain the
controls for scale. Typical users needn't be concerned with scale and its
complicated workings.
Thank you for your time and consideration,
TD
5 years, 6 months
Re: [Inkscape-user] the Scale setting and Display units
by Jabier Arraiza
Hi.
The display unit in mm is a good option for printing and anybody can
change using a template or modifing the default one.
Maybe a prompt when change display units to retain current scale could
be a good option, I always need to change to previous scale (normaly
1.00) once change to display_units.
Also I add a option to resize to content, what I retain collapsed by
default, to make the same value in 4 inputs.
Regards, Jabier.
5 years, 6 months
Linebreacks: last and first word of lines are melting together
by Onsemeliot
I wonder if others experience the same behaviour:
I created a folder layout where I put the front and the back pages on
separate layers. I use text boxes with justified text and adapted the
letter-space in some lines in order to get more or less uniform text
blocks.
This seems to work fine on first glance. Unfortunately after saving and
opening the file again I end up with some lines where the last word of
the previous line fuses with the first word of the next line. This of
course messes up my line breaks. I can easily "repair" this by
inserting a space between those two words again but I have to look very
carefully to not miss any instance each time I open my file for
editing.
So far I couldn't figure out when exactly this happens. It could be
random but I suspect it happens when two lines with letter spacing
definitions follow after another. But it doesn't happen always to the
same lines.
I guess when saving and opening the XML code of the file gets
interpreted slightly different resulting in losing the space between
some words belonging to two different blocks of letter spacing. Maybe
it only occurs if both blocks do have the same value. I imagine there
is a clean-up that removes unnecessary tags losing spaces on the way.
I use Inkscape 0.92.1 r15371 on Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) 64-bit
with standard GNOME 3 on a Technoethical T400s (which in fact is a
refurbished Lenovo T400s with Libreboot).
Thank you for any feedback,
Onsemeliot
5 years, 6 months
