- Inkscape Users - Inkscape Mailman

Re: [Inkscape-user] Layers dropdown, was: Baffling UI
by rain 02 Feb '07

02 Feb '07

On 1/30/07, Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@...1631...> wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 04:24:00PM +0000, Alan Horkan wrote: > > > > If you are only using it for status and not making much use of the > hiding > > or locking buttons do you think an indication in the title bar would be > > helpful? > > No no no, I do use it for switching, locking and hiding, too. > It give status infomation, and sits in the status bar. > It offers means to change all it informs about with only > taking a tiny bit more space for that. > > > this started because the status bar messages were unclear and > abbreviated. > > Hmm. They have tooltips. The only one that made me wonder was the O for > Opacity (I'm looking at a not too recent 0.44+devel version). > > Fills, Stroke and Zoom could use icons. > > The N/A ... I would just write nothing. no word, empty space. > Note even F: and S: needs to stay there. > > The foo "in layer bar" message is really redundant. > > The palette bar could hide the scrollbar if it fits in. > > > > You'd think people are only beginners once but unfortunately many people > > stay there, I for example dont use Blender often enough to retain what > > little I have learnt and I'm effectively a beginner everytime. If you > > have worked in technical support you find many more users are like this > > when it comes to their computer. without really trying inkscape has > been > > successful in attracting artistic users who want inkscape for their > > various kidns of crafts work it will help if things can be kept simple > > with one right way to do things and not too many assumptions made about > > inkscape users being experts at technical drawing and wanting many > > different possibilities to achieve the same end results, as it is the > > results that matter. Unfortunately, no matter how many people come to a consensus, the "one right thing" will not appeal to everyone, and assuming that there is any one way to go about a task makes the inkscape UI seem a little authoritarian. The effect is an arrogant sort of "This way is better, and you need to adjust the way you do things from however you did it before, because THIS is how it is in inkscape." This does not strike me as typical FLOSS behaviour, and even if the motive behind the above quoted notion isn't arrogance, it comes off as such. IMHO, idea that "having many ways of doing the same tasks" is for experts is flawed. An expert would have worked out the most efficient way to carry out a task and then stuck to that. The point of having many ways to do something would be to cater to users at every level. Of course the inkscape community would want to push users to develop instead of staying at the beginner level, but it seems to me that it would be better to try to encourage the user away from the inefficient way they have been doing things in AI/Freehand/whatever instead of insisting that they quit cold turkey and "Do it the right way!". my 2c I still think most users make it to some intermediate level. > If you look at hours spent with a software, users that only > touch it once in a while don't count. > > > -- > Thorsten Wilms > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share > your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV > _______________________________________________ > Inkscape-user mailing list > Inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-user > -- -- Meshach Mitchell

1 0

effects don't work in 0.45pre2
by Arthur Bueno 02 Feb '07

02 Feb '07

I installed inkscape 0.45pre2 using the Windows installer. Some of the effects don't work. Most useful to me would be the "export/groups to pngs" script. If I run it I get an error message (see below). Does anybody have an idea how to get it working? the error message is: Traceback (most recent call last): File "share\extensions\g2pngs.py", line 81, in ? e.affect() File "C:\Program Files\Inkscape\share\extensions\inkex.py", line 153, in affect self.parse() File "C:\Program Files\Inkscape\share\extensions\inkex.py", line 114, in parse self.document = reader.fromStream(stream) File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\dom\ext\reader\Sax2.py", line 372, in fromStream File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\expatreader.py", line 109, in parse File "C:\Python24\Lib\site-packages\_xmlplus\sax\xmlreader.py", line 121, in parse IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.19/663 - Release Date: 01-Feb-07

1 0

Installation help
by John R. Culleton 01 Feb '07

01 Feb '07

On a Slackware Linux 11 system when I do ./configure I get the following errors: checking for INKSCAPE... configure: error: Package requirements (gdkmm-2.4 glibmm-2.4 gtkmm-2.4 gtk+-2.0 >= 2.8.0 libxml-2.0 >= 2.6.11 libxslt >= 1.0.15 cairo sigc++-2.0 >= 2.0.11 gthread-2.0 >= 2.0 libpng >= 1.2) were not met: No package 'gdkmm-2.4' found No package 'glibmm-2.4' found No package 'gtkmm-2.4' found No package 'sigc++-2.0' found Is there a bundle for Inkscape users that has these packages? Or must I chase them down individually? -- John Culleton Able Indexing and Typesetting Precision typesetting (tm) at reasonable cost. Satisfaction guaranteed. http://wexfordpress.com

3 2

what direction for UI
by Daniel Culver 31 Jan '07

31 Jan '07

I hope that I am not out of place adding my thoughts on the UI. I started using CAD/CAM almost thirty years ago, when my father was an early developer of training programs. I am an accomplished draftsman, but, I can go for long periods without using a program (I still use hand drawing a lot), and find I need to reacquaint myself with the UI. JiHO, I think has a very good idea, with the ability to select from user profiles. Bulia's ideas about templates are also very excellent, I wish I was able to work on that one, but I can't. This may be out of place, but, my 'best of wish' would be specific to Mac; I would love to see a multiple user profiles (prewritten and customised) along with a start-up script available from a dashboard widget. Daniel Culver danielculver@...107...

1 0

Re: [Inkscape-user] Layers dropdown
by Bryce Harrington 31 Jan '07

31 Jan '07

On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 06:06:49PM +0100, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > > this started because the status bar messages were unclear and abbreviated. > > > You'd think people are only beginners once but unfortunately many people > > stay there, I for example dont use Blender often enough to retain what > > little I have learnt and I'm effectively a beginner everytime. If you > > have worked in technical support you find many more users are like this > > when it comes to their computer. without really trying inkscape has been > > successful in attracting artistic users who want inkscape for their > > various kidns of crafts work it will help if things can be kept simple > > with one right way to do things and not too many assumptions made about > > inkscape users being experts at technical drawing and wanting many > > different possibilities to achieve the same end results, as it is the > > results that matter. You know, it occurs to me that the status messages and the layer dropdown may cater to different crowds. Being able to read the status messages clearly is something novice users need the most. The layer dropdown is something experienced users are after. Of course, there is some overlap (novice users needing layers will spot the layer dropdown first, and even experienced users will find info in the status bar of use from time to time). But this makes me wonder if the status bar could benefit from some sort of adaptive ui behavior or perhaps just a configuration setting? For new users, the layer dropdown (among other things) could initially just be scary clutter, so clearing off the status bar in favor of status messages could make the application >look< a lot more approachable. Then, later once they've gotten more comfortable, they could graduate into expert mode and have these extra accessories turned on. This may also fit in with a more mode-oriented usage model that we've discussed previously in the context of technical drawing vs. artistic drawing needs, which shows up in areas like snapping and so forth. The layer dropdown is not a good example here since both technical and artistic drawers need that, but a better example might be a symbol pallete (very important for tech drawing, but not so much for artists), vs. the color pallete (important for art, less so for tech). A framework that allowed the UI to adapt to different user modes could prove handy for a lot of different purposes. Another example would be a "child-oriented mode" where the UI is simplified to basic drawing options. Ideally, we would be able to come up with a single design that suits all needs (e.g. moving it into the canvas), and it is very wise to always make that the top goal, since the fewer configuration options, the easier the software will be to test and maintain. In practice, though, as Inkscape's usage grows and fills in more and more niches, the need for usage-mode-specific UI layouts is going to grow. > I still think most users make it to some intermediate level. > If you look at hours spent with a software, users that only > touch it once in a while don't count. Well, it depends on how you look at the project's goals. Certainly, our most important audience is users who contribute back to the project, and as such it's true that these users will be spending enough time with the project to get over small usability issues such as UI clutter. (Remember, every Inkscape user was a novice at one time.) However, Inkscape also has the goal of being a member of the larger open source community, and I think this involves embracing some of the more occasional style usages, such as if someone just needs to knock out a quick flyer for their club, or make a gift card for a relative. It would be a great sign of success if Inkscape were the only 2D drawing program required to be on the open source desktop. Bryce

5 8

bug with create tiled clones
by unknown＠example.com 30 Jan '07

30 Jan '07

create an object than go to edit/clone/create tiled clones type a negative entry ( like: -10,00%) in the tab "scale" and click on create to see the crash. inkscape 0.45pre2-1! thanks Kirk --------------------------------- Vinci i biglietti per FIFA World Cup in Germania!

2 1

Converting Type to Shapes
by Dave Crossland 30 Jan '07

30 Jan '07

Hi! I've been using Inkscape to do some typographic designs, and I can use the text tool to make a single charachter and then use the "Object To Path" command on the Path Menu (CTRL SHIFT C) to convert it into an editable shape I can control with the node editor, and make its bounding box fit tightly around the shape so I can use the Align and Distribute palette to place it just right. However, when I write a line of text, I'd like to use "Object To Path" to convert the text into a group of objects, which I can then ungroup and rearrange using Align and Distribute. When I do this at the moment, all the letters appear to be one object. Any tips? :-) -- Regards, Dave

2 2

Bounding boxes and patterns, cloning, etc...
by Andrew Mellinger 30 Jan '07

30 Jan '07

Greetings! I am a long time Freehand user (still using Fh8 on the mac) and I am trying to switch to Inkscape. I playing with it for a few hours last weekend and I have a few questions. FH8 used to have 'replicate' and used to remember the offset of duplicate options so one could easily duplicate a set of things over and over. For example, if I wanted to build a grid, I could draw a line then duplicate it once placing it in the right place then hit the duplicate key over and over. I've been trying this with patterns and cloning and I have problems with bounding boxes. It looks like the tiling wants to tile base on bounding box, but the box is outside of the actual area by some amount like the size of miters, or lines or soemthing. i.e. The bounding box doesn't bound to the node points, but to the line. This makes it impossible (as far as I can tell) to make a pinstripe pattern. Anyone encountered things like this before? I'm using Inkscape 0.44. Thanks for any help! -Andrew

4 7

Re: [Inkscape-user] Layers dropdown, was: Baffling UI
by Alan Horkan 30 Jan '07

30 Jan '07

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Thorsten Wilms wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:13:34 +0100 > From: Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@...1631...> > To: inkscape-user(a)lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: [Inkscape-user] Layers dropdown, was: Baffling UI > > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 12:43:00PM +0000, Alan Horkan wrote: > > Not the best point to step in, but I deleted most of this > thread to not get angry ;) Hopefully we can come to some conclusion without anyone getting too heated. Everyone is keepings polite but persistant and it isn't what you'd call a flamewar. > > Why not give it a try for a release, or for a while during the unstable > > time between releases? > With trying you mean removing the layer dropdown? Yes. > I use it all the time. I often have a number of layers, but work > in one layer for a while and don't switch layers that often. > If is elect something on another layer, I look down there to > see 'where' I am. The layer palette is only allowd to eat Good to know even if it backs up bulias point ;P FYI Adobe Photoshop includes this information in the titlebar of the form Filename @ Layername - Adobe Photoshop (roughly, I just saying from memory) If you are only using it for status and not making much use of the hiding or locking buttons do you think an indication in the title bar would be helpful? > So: > - Layer dropdown takes space that could be used for something > else. > - for what? this started because the status bar messages were unclear and abbreviated. one idea I've seen elsewhere is that clicking on the status bar pops a message dialog so that even if you have a small status bar you do have a way to see the full status bar message. I'll file a request if asked but I should nearly file one against GTK ... > - Dropdow could mislead new users to think its all there is. > - it's in the menus and the documentation. Users are new > to an app only once ... You'd think people are only beginners once but unfortunately many people stay there, I for example dont use Blender often enough to retain what little I have learnt and I'm effectively a beginner everytime. If you have worked in technical support you find many more users are like this when it comes to their computer. without really trying inkscape has been successful in attracting artistic users who want inkscape for their various kidns of crafts work it will help if things can be kept simple with one right way to do things and not too many assumptions made about inkscape users being experts at technical drawing and wanting many different possibilities to achieve the same end results, as it is the results that matter. > - My claim of different scenarios for drodown and palette > (see above) Hope you will consider my counter suggestion and perhaps further describe how and why you use the dropdown. Might be interesting to know if anyone actually uses the menus for switching layers. -- Alan

1 0

scaling geometry but not Stroke
by Lucas Jordan 30 Jan '07

30 Jan '07

I find it hard to create a collection of shapes that are different sizes, yet have the same thickness of line. Currently I create shapes with the tools on the left, such as a circle. when I am done creating a circle I find that if I want to make it a little smaller (reduce diameter), the thickness of the line is also reduced when the circle is modified by the provided handles. Is there a UI feature I am missing that will allow me to change the size and shape of a object, without changing it's line size? thanks for fun app. I apprieciate any help! -Lucas

2 1